"Unveiling Deception" With Leo Kehler

[00:00:01] How much of the stuff you leave in and how much you leave out? I guess you have to listen. Because I don't listen to the show. That's fair. How nice of you. What? I don't need to listen to it. I'm sitting here. You lived it.

[00:00:14] I'm living through it. Despite your barely living through it. Soon I'm not going to be living through it. Well, if you keep forcing the salads down, you'll live through them. Those salads are going to kill me. Just go back to burgers. It's fine. Yeah.

[00:00:33] Sooner you're gone the better. Make sure the paperwork is up to date. Inherit all this. Does that mean I have to do this show? You have to give her shit. Yeah, you have to continue. You have to give more shit. That's in our contract that you didn't sign.

[00:00:47] We don't have one. Oh, I didn't sign it. Okay. I'm glad. That's all right. All right. Well, welcome everyone back to The Quiet Riot Show. Hey. I hope you leave some of this stuff in. I usually do as an intro or outro.

[00:01:24] Just like the pre bonus track or whatever. Some of the banter. I think it's always ridiculous. I'm not entirely sure. I leave enough in so it's appropriate. What's appropriate? Between you two, I don't know what's appropriate. Yeah. Welcome back.

[00:01:44] We're just over our one year anniversary of the show. So it doesn't fucking matter anymore. So now it's on to your second year. Yeah. And you're two. We're diving right in. Yeah. So if you're new here, welcome. If you're still here, I'm shocked. And thank you.

[00:02:03] And also thank you. Yeah, sorry, I forgot that part. You know what's weird? When we do shows with people who have been involved as the other guy that I was. Oh, yeah. I just like there's a part of my brain

[00:02:17] that has to take a few minutes to like transition into that because I just want to be a piece of shit. But I remember like, oh, I got to be a different kind of piece of shit on this show. Well, our guest, today's guest,

[00:02:29] like he also knows you as that piece of shit. That other piece of shit. Yeah. So you're actually having a show with a different piece of shit but same person. And just for the audience, like the piece of shit was an act and that was a, it was.

[00:02:44] Well, yeah. Like that's like your, what do you call it? Like the persona, right? Yeah, it was more of a persona. It was like, it was an elevated, absurd version of my sense of humor. It was really actually just my sense of humor,

[00:02:59] but I was allowed to just be that. That's right. Well, and give it a boost. Oh yeah. So that was pretty funny. And under the guys of a name that nobody recognized. So like that was probably helpful on many occasions. That's right. Yeah, yeah. That was hilarious.

[00:03:16] Don't go mad with some. Well, you never heard the stuff that got edited. Oh no, no. I just remember all the stuff that got in. Yeah. The stuff that stayed in was bad, but. I'm still remember the live recording of Wheeler and Candace at what was it?

[00:03:31] Four Crowns. Oh, we did the live episode. Yeah. I never would listen to the actual episode afterward. So I have no idea what got edited. I don't know either. I never listened to the same with this show. I never listened to it. I was there.

[00:03:43] So I just remember the freaking what's it the Slovak piss that you brought. Oh yeah. You want some? Maybe the second half. Let's get into it first. Leo, thanks for joining us today. That's our guest. He's one of the original. We used to call each other comebacks.

[00:04:06] They're welcome. We have a lot of people who are like, Oh, hello. I'm just going to say hello to you. And I'm going to say hello to all the listeners and thanks to you. You named us and we're like,

[00:04:17] while we either get a like, you know, fold and get but hurt or we'll just get it on up to it. We're going to lean in. Exactly. And that just became almost like a trademark work for us. Yeah. That was hilarious. But yeah, welcome here today.

[00:04:31] I know we've chatted months and months ago, but I'm not sure if you're going to be able to share your story, which is really. I don't really even know much. When you told me when you reached out and like, Hey, I have this. I was like, Holy shit.

[00:04:45] This is perfect for our show. I mean, as in like, No, no, no, thanks for going through it. Like, Exactly. You could record an episode. Like really thank you for going through shitty time. I put a mental health on the rack on the line

[00:04:57] just so you guys can have control of that. You've always been one of the nice ones. That's why I like you. It's the Mennonite side. That's why it's the always pleasing everybody. Yeah, yeah. Making sure everyone is okay except for myself. Right. Well, you put yourself no,

[00:05:11] we're self-sacrifice. You're like Jesus. Actually, Jesus. Jesus. So yeah, you're here. Yeah. We've covered a lot of different topics on the show over the past year and like none like yours. No, it seems like it's the first stuff. It's kind for you.

[00:05:29] We'll ease into it a little bit here. Well, and then that's... I appreciate that you're here. I really honestly do. And I think that this is for sure something that I've never had a conversation with someone about. It's still a difficult topic. Or really seen happen.

[00:05:44] I have one friend that maybe, but I don't even actually know your story a lot. So I'll figure that out after the fact. But thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. Thank you for having me. And like I know this sometimes sitting in the other seat

[00:05:57] on this show is probably uncomfortable and a little bit weird. We know each other a little bit. It's maybe a little bit easier, but it's never easy. I hate it when we talk about me on the show. So I just fucking hate it when you talk about yourself.

[00:06:11] Hence why we have guests and shit like that because I fucking don't want to talk about myself. But yeah, I know that. And again, like joking aside, we love hearing somebody going through some stuff and they're still here. They're dealing with it

[00:06:28] and helps us understand what you're going through, helps the listeners understand what you're going through. And maybe it will help somebody else to kind of maybe they're going through with the same shit and help them through those tough times.

[00:06:42] From that standpoint, I love that you have a story to tell. I definitely want to get the story out there because I think for me it's going to help me kind of face every story because in all honesty I've been hiding from it a little bit

[00:06:56] because it's been so overwhelming and I have kind of isolated myself and become a bit of a hermit the last year even more than I was before. But yeah, I felt it was time to go and reach out and just get the story out there

[00:07:09] and just to be able to get it because I can't do this on my own anymore. That's the stage where I'm at and I need to... Nor do you have to. And I'm doing everything except for going to therapy. We're going to tell you you should

[00:07:21] but it sounds like you already know that. I have a sister who's a therapist. She's not much pushing me in that... gently nudging me. She knows how to nudge me without pushing me too much. Hey! Go to therapy! I think part of her would wish that.

[00:07:34] I think obviously, sorry Shelly. She would probably wish that. So before we talk, we actually tell our listeners what the story is. Let's do the check-in and then we go from there. Okay, start with you Tommy. Seeing as you started this mess. Yes. Doing okay.

[00:08:00] That's not how the check-in system works. I'm about a five. Ooh! Yeah, it's... That's not great. No, I'm crashing. From the last two episodes ago, it was what? That was a nine or whatever and then... Oh boy. You know, seven-ish and then... It's a little bit...

[00:08:18] What's that about? Well, you know, I had a doctor's appointment for blood work and that didn't come back the way I wanted it. So I need to do some self-repairing I guess, you know what I'm calling it now. Without going into detail. So it's gonna be...

[00:08:39] You know how we've talked about it? Like sometimes it's not good to worry about like what's gonna happen down the road. Because it doesn't really help. Let's just live in the moment and try to focus on what's now. But oh man,

[00:08:54] I need to get on this certain diet where I have to eat healthy and get my shit together. And I'm just like, okay now it's actually pretty good timing because my wife is off work for the summer. So you know, that pressure of coming home and cleaning

[00:09:10] or cooking or whatever, it's not there. But I'm like, man, when she goes back to work and I go back to my crazy busy life, I don't know how I'm gonna handle it. But maybe like... So hopefully these two months... Maybe have a couple of months

[00:09:24] to build some good habits. Yeah, routine and yeah, exactly. So hopefully it goes that way. But I'm just like, it's in the back. It's very fresh like a couple days. Okay. So I'm just like, I barely slept last night. Well you don't sleep much anyway.

[00:09:39] No, and it slept even less than that. Oh jeez. Yeah, so yeah, it's just a little tired and not 100% there. But it'll get better though. The nice... And maybe not the nice thing, I don't know, but like you're at a point where you're not going to sleep.

[00:09:56] You're at a point where... And you just told me a tiny bit before we started the show, but like you have an opportunity to change the circumstance. And thanks for making fun of me for that. Yeah, the part you're here for. And I love that.

[00:10:08] I've even told my coworkers. Fuck it's stupid, why wouldn't I? They're just like, oh sorry, I'm like, no man, dude, I do the same thing to my coworker where like make fun of him eating a salad. I'm like, you guys better make fun of me eating salads too.

[00:10:20] I think they'll make fun of you. 100%. Forever. Yeah, yeah. But we support you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. We're friends. We talked about it. That's what real friendship is. What did your wife say when she came down here and I said something mean about it? And she's like,

[00:10:34] I know, I know, that's how you guys say it. You told them to fuck off. Yeah, I told them to fuck off. She's like, I know that's what I love you means. Okay, I mean so my coworkers must really love me

[00:10:46] because that's what they tell me every day. But when I tell that to my boss, I actually mean it. It doesn't, yeah. Anyways, I'm just kidding. My boss is actually pretty cool. Penny. What am I today? Today I'm a tired 7. Oh, okay.

[00:11:10] Yeah, I'm gonna say I'm a tired 7. That's not that bad. No, I actually feel pretty good. I'm just tired because of... Just not sleeping, right? Yep. Oh man, this new fucking thing is happening with me and I don't like it. Please elaborate.

[00:11:25] I'm doing my best to break it because there's no way I'm living like this. But I'm in this cycle now and I feel like it's because I'm just getting old but I'm not willing to accept it that my body just wants to wake up

[00:11:39] at five o'clock in the morning. Yeah. But then at 10.30 at night I'm fucking tired. Yep. It's ridiculous. I don't fuck that. You like staying up late? I would prefer to not fall asleep at 10.30. My daughter's been making fun of me saying,

[00:11:57] do you need help getting up the stairs? We tried to watch a movie as a family the other night. It was like 10.30. I fell asleep in five minutes. We started watching a movie at eight o'clock. I'm out within half an hour. Oh, sure. For sure.

[00:12:11] I'm not living like this. I'll stay up late drinking and having a good time. Concerts, no problem. Yeah. You put me in the lazy-boing for a TV? A lot of it. Yeah, no, I'm not living like... I hate that. It fucking pisses me off. No, this has been...

[00:12:25] What do you think kids mean? This has been going on for a week and a half maybe where I've been fighting it. So last night I'd bring it up later, which was nice. But like, I'm really trying because I'm like, I'm not doing this.

[00:12:38] I'm not fucking this 5 a.m. fucking you 5 a.m. You still got up at 5, didn't you? Yeah. But I'm staying up later. Yeah. So like, you know, I'm fighting it. But I feel okay. You'll get used to it and then I'll be like me.

[00:12:51] No, I don't want to be like eating salads and whatever else you do. Drinking water? Yeah, drinking water. I mean, there's rum in my water. Yeah, sure. Which I hope my doctor doesn't see this. So, hey, at least if your doctor is listening,

[00:13:08] they know that you ate a salad. That's right. Right? Look at that. He didn't eat a salad. He was a steak salad minus the lettuce. With 3 pounds of bacon on it. Cooked with lard. So I do feel good. I've actually been very productive lately.

[00:13:24] I feel good about like work is good and all that feels good. Family feels good. My daughter's home because it's summer and like we've had some fun. Yeah, it's just it's good. These are overall pretty good. Awesome. How about you, Leo?

[00:13:38] So you guys do the 1 to 10 rating, right? Yeah. It's actually funny when my sister and I watched one of your episodes recently just to kind of get a feel for your flow and everything. You mean you don't listen to every episode? Well, no, I wanted her to...

[00:13:52] Oh my God. We're done. I've probably listened to more episodes than Tim has though. You know what I guarantee you have. That's what I'm just kidding. But when you guys are doing the check-in on that one too, she does with her clients actually too. So that's actually your...

[00:14:07] She's like, oh, that's great. That's awesome. Yeah, one of the worst and 10 is like great on Cloud9 kind of thing. Yeah. Today? Yeah, I would say about a 4 or 5. Okay. But that's about where I've been coasting for the last little while. Over Christmas it was much, much lower

[00:14:27] but now summer is coming. I've actually noticed a big difference though too with more daylight. Honestly, that's a huge... You're like that too. Yeah, like the clouds been pissing me off lately. It's just way too much... Oh no, I don't mind the rain actually.

[00:14:42] I just like the sun being out longer. That's a big one for me. It's the whole seasonal effectiveness, whatever. Yeah, I would say about 4 or 5. That's about where I've been for the last little while. So I'm hoping to bring it up a little bit. Sure, yeah.

[00:14:57] I mean just having the hope to want to bring it up that's probably already a good thing. Getting myself out is helpful that way too. You're not telling yourself this is the best against? No, no, no. I know that there's better out there.

[00:15:10] I mean the shit right now. I have to waddle my way out. It takes time, but just one little bit at a time. And for me, I don't swing numbers very quickly but if I'm 4, I can find my way to a 4.5 and then you can climb slowly

[00:15:31] and even moments, it's like that moment itself that hour, that day, that week was more like a 5 or 6 and then it might be go back down but find those little moments and that's what carries you through to the next one.

[00:15:44] Yeah, I try to find good things about every day at level. It's something really good to happen at work. That makes you feel good, okay, that bumps you up and that helps you for the ego for the next day. But if you wake up in a shitty mood,

[00:15:55] it's just, it's tough to recover from a shitty wake-up. And lately I've been trying to really focus on I really like, and this comes more from you and from your wife, manifesting something. You want to manifest the good, the happiness, the positivity and stuff.

[00:16:14] And I've been trying to just always look at the good in the shit that's happening to me. So even with me going through this hell thing like at least okay now it's scary and I could be sad about it

[00:16:33] or I can focus like, okay, I do want to spend time with my kids in the next 20, 30, 40 years or whatever. Whatever my number comes up, right? So this is a time to do something about it and hopefully it gets better, right? I'm hoping for the better things.

[00:16:52] So I do tend to jump up and down. I get affected by any little shit very easily and one of those like, what do you call them? I'm like, when you act quickly on something. Self-right. That too. You're very reactive I guess, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:17:12] So if something good's happening, I'm excited. I started making fun of them earlier. I can't stop acting like we were locked in. But again, if something bad happens I used to take it like really tragically like right away go to the worst

[00:17:30] and so I'm trying to stop that part. Like I'm okay if I get excited about something and they jump to 10 right away. I'm okay with that. I just don't want to jump to one. The quick down. Yeah, the quick downward thing.

[00:17:41] When you get down to that one it's hard to come back up. That's right, yeah. Okay Leo, so we obviously brought you here to have a chat. I hope you're as prepared as you can be for that which I would guess sitting in the hot seat

[00:17:56] across from us is not always the most exciting feeling we're about to talk. But thank you for being here. I want to say that right off the hop and we just, we're so grateful for people that are willing to come in and share their stories

[00:18:10] and I know it's probably not easy and we just chatted a tiny bit before we started but like I know your story is tough and like it's also one that I think people need to hear and like that doesn't get talked about a lot

[00:18:22] and so where do we want to, do you want to give us a little back? Yeah, stories. What you want to talk about? Yeah, so just as a preemptive little story there's in 2019 I dated the girl in Winkler. She had three kids.

[00:18:38] She becomes an integral part of the story. So that's why I'm only giving you up. She has nothing actually to do with the story but the fact that I dated her runs into it. So we dated for about 10 months. It was really well,

[00:18:52] it was actually one of the best relationships I've ever had. It just ended because of various reasons but at that point you know COVID was just about hit at that point so I was like okay I'm just going to take a break.

[00:19:04] I'm just going to take just you know a series of bad relationships before all this and I was like I just need to take a break and just kind of settle down and figure out where things are going. So that ended in 2019 December

[00:19:17] and I had been single since June of last year so never, not dated nothing and then all of a sudden I met this woman. We don't know the date and it just from day one it was a gong show. Where did you meet her? Online dating actually.

[00:19:33] Facebook dating. Okay. So if anybody, I found out later on she's still doing that too. So it's online dating is where she gets her, where I met her. We ended up going out for coffee and then we just went down to the forks for some drinks

[00:19:47] and I didn't have to pick up my son until later that evening so we went to Boston Pizza for dinner that night and that's where we chatted and really got, she was very good at drawing out information for me

[00:19:59] so she got all these details from my past relationship from this woman in Winkler. She says that she, my ex now, she said that she had actually lived in Winkler so she knew who my ex apparently was. So it spiraled from there though and she slowly started.

[00:20:16] Like when she didn't. But I don't think she really actually knew her. Okay. So just, but she used that as a gateway to, to start bothering her. Yeah, yeah. She really was like, okay, I know, at first she told me, me and one of her best friends

[00:20:35] were dating this woman at the same time. Not the case ever but that's the story she kept making out for me, right? So she just kept, she actually, I would get text messages. All of a sudden that night I got a text message from this ex from Winkler.

[00:20:51] All of a sudden saying, oh, I'm still not over you and I still want to be with you and why are you dating this girl now? And I heard you're with her and it just, it was never true, right? So she just started lies and she started,

[00:21:04] she sent me a random text from a phone number I didn't know. Okay. And that's where it all went and I didn't, it kind of went really slippy from there. She did this very slowly. And this was like after the first, this was the first date.

[00:21:16] She's already texting me from this fake number from my other ex saying, I don't want you to date this new ex. I want you to be against it. Oh, okay. Yeah, I know, she's making up stories from day one, right? So like in that initial moment

[00:21:36] you'd had one date. Our first date that we spent together and I was like, well this is crazy. Yeah, it was great. Or was it like... Yeah, we got along great. We talked the whole time. It was like we met up early afternoon for coffee at Starbucks

[00:21:48] and it was a good chat the whole time. Okay. The drinks that we went for at the forks, again just very good at drawing out information from me. She asked the right questions and she was very good at keeping me talking.

[00:21:58] So then immediately it like started getting weird. Right. Like the same question next day. That night. That night she's texting me that she's, you know, I found out later it's her texting from a different, from her burner phone. Yeah. She's pretending to be.

[00:22:14] She had two phones on her all the time. One was hers and one was a burner I found out later on. But so she's texting me from a burner phone saying she's my ex from Winkler and I want to go date her.

[00:22:22] I want to get back together with you, blah, blah. It's a drama shit show from a rate from the beginning. She starts making up accusations about how I assaulted her children back then in 2019 when I was dating her. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's rewind a little bit.

[00:22:35] So you had the first date. Yeah. And it started right away. Right away it got weird. Yeah. And then at that time, like now you know a lot of stuff. Let's go back to that time. Like was, I thought it was the craziest thing in the world.

[00:22:49] Like even in that moment you were like, what the fuck is happening to me? I don't have a life like this. Yeah. My life is so calm. So okay. So this girl pretending to be your ex. Yeah. Saying that you assaulted your ex's children. I assaulted her children.

[00:23:05] She had three kids from her previous marriage. She is. And she's now saying that, you know, this is a little bit worse. Yeah, this is just a, just yeah, yeah. It's, I'm just scraping the surface on that one. Okay. So that was. How does date number two happen?

[00:23:20] It just, see, that's where it gets a little blurry for me because I don't, well, date number two was just, they were fine. You know, we just go out for coffee or for dinner and just hang out and like nothing abnormal, nothing unusual.

[00:23:33] But the conversations that she started with me, with her, she said her friend Ryan, so-called friend out from Winkler was also dating the same woman I was dating back in 2019. At the same time, I was the other guy. And at this point are you like believing these stories?

[00:23:48] Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'm believing it because I mean, why would you think? I'm a trusting person and just in general. Well there was no red flags that probably went off, right? No absolutely no red flags. She was not once what she ever mean or vindictive

[00:24:01] or anything like that. She was always just very, she looked, she was always very attentive and paying attention to me. Like, she was listening to my stories and I felt her which was, you know, sometimes a bit of a rarity. So he's like oh this-

[00:24:13] And the man feels nice when you're heard. Yeah for sure. And so she was doing that. She was playing into all my, like she did it with everything of mine. She would able, she was able to withdraw information

[00:24:24] out of me that not a lot of other people could have or at least like she just, she had a way of just getting every little bit of personal information out of me because she knew that she had built a little bit of trust with me.

[00:24:37] So she just kept building on that trust, right? Yeah of course. But at the same time she was also playing the villain at the same time but I didn't know that. In the background I didn't know. Everything was completely fine. And it just kept going though.

[00:24:51] It just, you know, it was little things here and there while it was now, now you're being investigated by the RSNP and like when did that- So through all this, keeping my, she now has told me that she's rich. She comes from money, from family,

[00:25:05] or from family money. She's wealthy. She doesn't need to work. But she does. She wants to keep busy kind of thing but she's millionaire basically. Okay. Doesn't have to have to work so she's enticing me with all this stuff right? She's like oh, you know,

[00:25:19] throwing everything at me. Like she's paying for all the dinners and everything. I never paid a thing with her. She paid for everything. Booze, everything. She always covered it. I have no idea where she got her money from because it turns out the job that she had

[00:25:29] that she told me she had was actually her job. The company that she claimed to work for they called and they said no, she never worked for us. Okay. Yeah, it's- And then, but- Fuck. Getting ahead of myself a little bit, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I might happen.

[00:25:46] I might jump back and forth a little but there's a lot of little details that I might jump over because there's a lot that happens. But yeah, she basically just built she kept building on the trust with me. Yeah. And just kept making the story crazier and crazier.

[00:26:00] And because she said she was rich, she said well all the, you know, salt charges or whatever the case here for your- you're facing from Winkler, she goes well I'll cover the lawyer fees for that. So now did how- okay, how did the-

[00:26:11] like was there actually a salt charges? No. Like did the RCMP actually show up? No. Or how were you hearing this of what was happening? So she was- because she said she would hire the lawyer for me to- Okay but how did they- how did it show up

[00:26:25] in the first place? What do you mean? Like how did- She told you this. She told you that? She told me this. Oh, okay. Yeah, no she was telling me this and then my ex was then at that point telling me well I'll just pay for your lawyers

[00:26:39] and I'll do like don't worry about a thing I'll take care of everything for you. She did what my sister calls trauma bonding. Yeah. Yeah I mean that's a hey like you're gonna be in shit don't worry I got you covered so you're like feeling secure now.

[00:26:53] Yeah, that's exactly what you did right? She made me feel secure. Sorry I'm just gonna- my sister sent me a few things last week that talked about like the definitions of like trauma bonding and what she was doing to me. Okay, oh yeah. And it was like-

[00:27:05] Man I like this guy. 100% right? 100% I was all the things that she sent me were very much accurate to like the seventh stage of trauma bonding is what she sent me so there's always you know excessively flatters and praises partner to win them over like she was

[00:27:23] love bombing me. Yeah. Everything was- I was great. I was the best part of it. I'm a great father, I'm a great person like you don't deserve any other stuff you know you don't deserve the people making accusations against you but kids that you never even touched

[00:27:34] and not gonna stop right. She made up in the first place. That she made up. Yeah. Ooh that is. Trust and dependency so does everything to gain the partner's trust and dependence so that's what she did right? She created these- at the end of

[00:27:44] the day she created 15 fake personas. 15? 15, one five. I had them all on my phone still. The thing is like if you're- Like different phone numbers and- Yeah she was one of those scrambler apps or whatever the- Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you know like the word rape gets

[00:28:02] thrown around or sexually assaulted around a man like you're right away feeling fucked even if you know you didn't do anything but somebody makes up right? I didn't do anything. Yeah I didn't do anything but she knew that like her youngest daughter

[00:28:17] at the time out there the girl Winkler her youngest daughter was about two three years old so she's very vulnerable and I got along so well with her like we went to like her she clung on to me like crazy. Yeah.

[00:28:29] She was very attached to me and so that was one of the reasons why that relationship was hard to get over is because that little girl was- but that's who my ex now claimed that I was assaulting. Well she's just craze on. Yeah.

[00:28:40] I did nothing like in my mind I'm going I never touched that girl that way. Yeah. Like I will yeah I held her and I you know how their arms and that kind of stuff but- Yeah it's a kid. It's a fucking kid.

[00:28:50] That's right that's what you do. Yeah. But it you know and she was attached to me she loved me she like it was so it was a really nice bond I had with her. Yeah. How long was that relationship with the- The one from Winkler? Yeah.

[00:29:02] That lasted for about ten months. Okay. Yeah. So it ended just before Christmas of 2019. Yeah. Okay. And then yeah but she made me trust her completely on everything right so all these accusations that were being thrown out that RCMP were investigating me and all

[00:29:17] this stuff like I had calls from RCMP as well like Winkler police and all that too they were calling because there was just a gong show like my son's mom got involved a little bit with that stuff so she was calling Winkler she

[00:29:29] had heard about some of these stories so she was calling the Winkler police trying to find out about this stuff and she did some- Oh Jesus. Yeah oh my god it got worse. It was- It was a thick story. Oh it's just getting there. So she had 15%-

[00:29:40] 15 different people so she pretended to be it started for about a year. So she had 15%- 15%- 15%- 15%- 15% it started from- My ex him Winkler- two two different phone numbers for her apparently- She made up her that- Her- Boyfriend- a fake boyfriend out there- Two different lawyers-

[00:30:00] Her boss- Her parents- There's a few other people that were in there. Oh my god- 15 people that she made up and that's how she did it to me right? How'd he keep track of that? I have fuckin' no idea how she kept track of that-

[00:30:14] That's what I wonder with some of these people how do Well the thing is what she did to me is I guess if you don't work, you got time. I don't know, she does work. That's a full time job. I don't know what, I found out later on

[00:30:24] where she does actually work. In the word near what she fucking told me she does. Shocking. She's a stripper. No, thankfully not. But I did go get checked afterwards because I was like, I'm not at risk of anything. Yeah, yeah, okay so it's starting to unravel.

[00:30:39] Like when did you know? I didn't. Not until the very end. I didn't know something was wrong until the very end. Oh fuck, okay so you're in it. I'm fucking in it. You're believing everything that's coming out of her and all these text messages.

[00:30:56] Yeah and I realize, so part of the story for me is the tremendous amount of guilt and shame that I feel because there's so many red flags that were coming up from everything right? I look back on the story now and I'm telling it to people and going,

[00:31:10] fuck that's a blatant red flag. What do you think caused you to ignore them or not see them? She drained me. Maybe a little bit of both. She tired me out. Was it a bull? She was love bombing me.

[00:31:21] Was it ignoring and not seeing it or was it? Not seeing it and I think if I did see those choosing to look the other way because I figured, you know maybe that's a small price to pay for a comfortable life.

[00:31:32] Because she's offering me a comfortable, comfortable life. And it was love bombing and all that stuff. It's super like psychopathic, it's narcissistic, it's all those things. Lovely fucking things. And I had a, I wouldn't say a relationship, a friendship with somebody who was very similar

[00:31:53] for a period of time and he was narcissistic, psychopathic, all those sociopaths like insane. So when you say love bomb, like I actually really understand what that means. And it's just like when you come out of that a little bit it's like, oh that is so sick.

[00:32:13] Like you are so sick and so evil of a person to do that. To be able to do that. Like man that's- Not only to me but she, remember she- Well I'm assuming someone like this and I'm trying to speak a little more in generalities

[00:32:29] for the sake of you. And just some of the things we talked about before the show. Like I'm assuming those people do that with everyone in their lives everywhere. They must. Like you can't just pick a target and do it to just them.

[00:32:46] If you're capable of doing that, you're doing that to every single- He was not the first person. Oh no, oh no no no no. I'm not the first and I wasn't the last. And there's- So how, okay let's get a timeline here. This is- Sorry. Honestly this is-

[00:33:00] I'll tell you right off the hook. Sorry fucked is a bad word to use for this. But like this is fucked. What is the timeline we're on? Eight weeks. Oh really? This is also part of what I'm dealing with right? Cause it took her that little time

[00:33:14] to fuck me up that bad. I met her June 10th. She's very good at what she does. I met her June 10th last year. And July 26th is when my sister pulled me out of my house to get me out of that situation. Oh, it was eight weeks?

[00:33:28] Yeah, seven weeks. It didn't take long. She started very subtly right? She started slow. And then all of a sudden it ramped it up. And then once these assault charges from the RCMP from Winkler, obviously that was not real. Someone called CFS an anonymous phone call

[00:33:43] and that's what tipped off the RCMP investigation. Sorry that was the detail that tipped off the RCMP investigation. They ended up coming to my house to come visit me and have a visit with my place and wanted to make sure that I had a safe home

[00:33:56] for my son and everything. The claim against me at CFS was that I wasn't providing enough food for my son. I wasn't providing clothing. Where's your son from? Which relationship before Winkler? From a long time ago. Okay. Yeah, he's 13. Oh, okay so this is long before.

[00:34:11] This ex that I'm talking about now, she's never, no, she's still my life obviously but that was from a long, long time ago. Okay, okay. But yeah, they went to visit my son at his school. They pulled him out of class and they started asking him

[00:34:26] about how his life was with my house and everything and then later on. Do you have full custody of your son? No, my son's mom has full custody. Okay, so okay. Yeah, so they went to his school though and they pulled him out. I had a conversation which,

[00:34:40] my kid's on the autism spectrum so that already to him was a lot. And then which caused a huge fight between my son's mom and I as well because she's protecting him and I get it and she's looking after his well-being and she should.

[00:34:56] That's exactly what she needs to be doing. She's the mom, that's what moms do. Mama bear. It turns out like it caused a fight with her and I obviously. And then the CFS was called again and they went to my son's house that night,

[00:35:09] like 10 o'clock at night that same day and interviewed him again, made his mom and her husband step outside and they had a conversation with Gavin again because they said, well, we got a call that you were apparently, you were punished for having told your parents

[00:35:28] what happened that you got pulled out by CFS. Now is this like all lies? Yeah, it's all, I mean the fact that CFS actually did go to his school and they actually did actually get involved. They actually did, the Jidami Club come to my house.

[00:35:44] There had been an accusation made about me making an assault to somebody in Winkler and they had to go investigate that as well. Now see that was the other thing because she used different. What a fucking waste of resources too. Oh that's 100% because I'm in Lorette

[00:35:57] so I had this time back, CFS come visit me. My son's mom lives in East St. Paul so she had to help her CFS and then Winkler or CFS had to get involved because there's claims made out there. So she's spreading the shit around, right?

[00:36:11] So it's not, she's trying to cover her tracks as much as she can when she does this but and again the CFS stuff, they can't say for sure that she did it that she's the one called in. It's anonymous for a reason. That has to be there.

[00:36:26] Enough things point to the same thing. Yeah, sure. So yeah that's part of it. Like she completely loved me. She trauma bonded me with claiming I was the other guy from that relationship like my ex was cheating on this guy named Ryan with me and everything so.

[00:36:42] So all this chaos, all this insane chaos is happening like very quickly. Oh yeah. And at any, and I guess maybe I've asked this already but at any point where you like, did you associate like everything in my life was fine until you showed up?

[00:36:59] And like now what the fuck is fucking happening? Yeah, yeah no it's those were definitely thoughts that I had at that time too. And I would question her too on some of her stories and then that's when sometimes she would change

[00:37:12] the details a little bit so it makes it more believable because I would question some of the stories right? Okay. Like question the validity of the story sometimes or the detail. She was really good at twisting words and changing them. Manipulating. Yeah, believe it. Make you believe it.

[00:37:27] Yeah, she did everything in her power to make me believe every word she said. Jesus. To the point where she got me to propose to her. Oh my God. I'm married to her. You are? I'm legally married to her. Oh, for sure. Oh fuck.

[00:37:40] Yeah, yeah that happened in a short period of time. Oh. She so. Man you were busy. Oh that's not a good, not a good. Sorry I'm not. No, yeah. That's the thing like I'm not a person who has a heavy, heavy social life.

[00:37:52] I'm very, keep to myself kind of thing. You must have been with her every day. At a point I got to be almost every day and I couldn't leave my phone. From work, from eight o'clock on she'd be texting me all day throughout the day

[00:38:10] and calling me throughout the day to give me updates on. Did it damage your work? Almost. In your career? And I had almost, well the thing is I had just started a new job last year in February. Okay. And so it was a new company, knew everything

[00:38:22] and then this shit happened. Now I'm going oh fuck what's my boss gonna think about this? Like you just hired this guy to come to do sales for him and he falls for these fucking tricks right? Like that sure. That was a big, big.

[00:38:32] Luckily my boss was good. He understood. That's good. He actually gave me a week and a half off of work to kind of deal with some of the stuff. Just so I could get through it and cause honestly there was a time where I couldn't even think straight.

[00:38:46] I had to, my sister was doing almost everything for me. So you got so, like you'd get so turned around. Yeah. Yeah I got fucking turned around. I was upside down. She was keeping me up until three, four o'clock every night

[00:38:58] and then I had to get up at 6.30 for work. Exhaustion. Make people weak. Holy fuck. That's what she did. That's what she did. And then her parents had a cabin up by, up at Grand Beach and what's that town called? Did they actually? Hillside.

[00:39:12] Oh no I went there. Did you meet her parents? I met her parents. And? We never talked about the shit that happened during the week. Right, she'd always say to me, well let's just take the, she caused all this chaos during the week

[00:39:23] and then she would buy a Thursday Friday. She's like, well you know on Friday after you're done work I'll come pick you up and then we'll head out to my parents cabin for the weekend and we'll just chill out there.

[00:39:32] We'll have some, you know go on the boat, go to the beach, just chill and forget about the shit that's happening in town here right? And like when you went that was what happened? Like it was like she gave you a break?

[00:39:43] Yeah, well she doesn't give me a break so much. Not a break from her but like, From the drama, from the chaos. She was causing some what? She actually took you out of it. She was still creating it though. Well I would assume it never stopped.

[00:39:58] She was also part of the, But you met her parents. I met her parents, yeah. Did they know she's fucking psycho? Fuck, like, it's your kid. They know that she has problems. They know that and I think. Was there stuff before this?

[00:40:14] They've been witness to and maybe we'll do that after the break but like. There was stuff that they knew about. Basically her mom once told me that their dad was Santa Claus 24-7 for the girls. Okay. Like he bought them anything and everything they wanted. Okay.

[00:40:29] So they got away with murder basically right? She absolutely continued the story all the time. It was on the weekends. But she always made me feel like she was my savior, right? She was making me feel, she was protecting me. You believed she's a good person.

[00:40:45] And you also believed that there's all this shit happening in your life to you. She also knew my naivety when it came to the legal system. I didn't ever doubt with any of the legal stuff I had before.

[00:40:54] So I had no idea what to actually expect or what to do. It's like, yeah, unless you have to deal with it, you don't know that shit. Yeah. And she's. How does she go to law school? Well and then finally later on she's clearly.

[00:41:07] Or if you're like my wife, if you watch law and order. You're good. You're good. You're still detective from now on out yet. Yeah, no she, everything that she did was to build up my trust. And then she would also create the chaos around me.

[00:41:21] But then protect me from the chaos. And then she knew how to manipulate it. No, she, that weekend I remember she ended up, because all this stuff was happening and these assault charges were on me. She ended up making me stop my visitations with my son.

[00:41:36] Now there wasn't actually assault charges. No. It never was. Okay. None of that ever is a thing. So like there was never actually any charges? No. I can't. There's nothing, there's never any investigation whatsoever because I have legitimately spoken to RCMP and Winnipeg police now. Okay.

[00:41:51] And there's never been any sort of, I've never come up on the radar before this. But you believed it because CFS was involved right? CFS came to my house so it felt real. So I mean that's fucking believable. If CFS shows up at your door.

[00:42:03] Yeah, I mean there's somebody coming out knocking at your door asking you, how's your son have enough food in the house? Is there enough clothing for him? Has he looked after? Are you a decent father? The shit that, she knew that I was in a bit

[00:42:18] of a vulnerable state already. And she just prayed on that. I mean even if you're not, CFS knocking at your door will make you feel like a shit person now. During that first little bit, and I can't believe the timeline of this is so short,

[00:42:33] during the first two weeks did you, when CFS showed up, did you start to question yourself? You must have beaten you down. Oh absolutely. That's the only way it works for her is like, if you actually are becoming beat down on this. Completely and when she did,

[00:42:48] I was completely knocked down with all that stuff. She knew it. She literally would get me into tears. And then build you back up. Build me back up. She would tear me down by doing the shit behind the scenes and then build me back up

[00:43:01] to build that trust so I believed everything she did. She was isolating me from my family too. Evil that some people are capable of. Well and shocking. And not to play up her side of the story, but these people are probably so fucked in their head.

[00:43:20] Oh they are. They just, they need to ruin your life in order to- To make themselves feel good. Yeah, so they can feel good that they're taking care of you. You know, like create a shit it's an area for them. And that's the thing like I,

[00:43:33] with the person I went through some of that with like, I actually believe at times they think they're doing the right thing. Yeah, they do. Like they're actually- She did actually- They actually believe- Yeah. They are doing the right thing.

[00:43:45] One of the last text messages I got from her was, I know I have problems. Can we talk this through? That's a fucking understatement. Yeah. Yeah. Oh no, she's- No problems is my car tires flat. Yeah, exactly. Sorry I got- I need to do the salad.

[00:44:02] That's a problem. Yeah, sorry I got mad over nothing that one time. That's a problem. Well what she also would do is, you know when she would see me get fresher and angry about things, she would kinda see me boil over to a point

[00:44:17] and I don't do that. I'm not a person that I'm a very, I have a long fuse for my temper. I don't know you well but I know your heritage and I- Passive. I know you and like there's no- Completely passive way that you're the blue scan

[00:44:30] and like- No. She, yeah she clearly to the point where I would bubble over and I would kinda not snap but I would kinda just vent. Yeah, sure. She would take that. To me that was venting to her. To her she would then take that in-

[00:44:46] That was just fuel. Oh she would then use that turnaround and go oh well you know I know you're going through a lot of things but I'm here to help you. You need to stop taking your frustrations out on me. I'm here on your side.

[00:44:57] I'm doing everything I can to help you. You need to stop yelling at me and stop taking your frustrations out on me. Jesus Christ. She's causing me all this pain right so. Why don't we take a little break? Sure, sure. You were coughing earlier

[00:45:09] so it sounds like you need a smoke. I'm ready for your idea. That's correct. Sounds good. We'll be right back. Hey Tommy among all the episodes we've recorded you know there's one common theme and that's getting therapy. We've talked about it lots. Many many times.

[00:45:25] You had a really tough time making that first phone call. I didn't even know if the person I was going to see was the right person but you got to just try. Thank goodness we have a sponsor that makes it way easier now. BetterHelp has an online platform

[00:45:40] that allows you to fill out a questionnaire. They connect you with a therapist and you get to communicate with them however you want. So whether that's text messaging, that's emails, that's through their app, that's video chats. You get all those options and it makes it way less scary

[00:45:55] to be connected to them. Way less scary to be connected with someone and if you're not into the person you talk to they'll sign you another one right away. I've gotten a signed mine already and I can't wait to use it. Like by the time you hear this

[00:46:09] I will have had my first session and I'm super pumped to talk about it on the show. Yeah, I'm very excited about it and like it's very easy to sign up. It took us maybe five minutes to sign up and you answered just simple questions

[00:46:22] and next thing you know you got a message that you'll be paired up with a therapist and within the same day we got the therapist already and the name and a message from them and we were able to communicate with them so it's extremely easy.

[00:46:36] So please go to betterhealth.com. Yeah, that's the thing. Betterhealth.com slash Quiet Riot show and you get to also enjoy 10% off for your first month if you sign up using this link. So again right here I'm gonna be doing it from here.

[00:46:54] Yeah, it's betterhealth.com slash Quiet Riot show. Yeah, sign up today and you're not gonna regret it because I'm already enjoying it just the fact that we connected with a therapist. Me too man. Thank you to BetterHelp for supporting this podcast. My brain is racing man. Anyone else?

[00:47:19] Yeah, yeah for sure. We are not you but anyone else who listeners, Tommy. Yeah, no it's definitely a lot to take in. Yeah, that's a big story. Someday can you write out the timeline? We have that already. Do you have that? That's all we'll get into.

[00:47:37] When this is all done because I know there's some things that currently we can't talk about because they're not finished or they're unsettled. But if you're willing someday I would love to have you back when this is over over and just like do a fucking celebrate

[00:47:56] is what we're gonna do. We're gonna have a celebration when this is actually over over. So I don't wanna, one thing I try not to do with people when we bring people into the show to be vulnerable and share their stories

[00:48:06] is like I don't wanna harp too much on the bad thing that happened. So a lot of people come in here and we have a lot of people on because a bad thing happened. Part of what we wanna do on this show

[00:48:18] is be vulnerable with our bad things that happen. And so we wanna make that part of it but we don't wanna make that necessarily even the full focus of what we're doing here because the whole goal of this is that yes, we can share our bad thing

[00:48:33] which I think is a sign of strength in men being able to feel vulnerable and being able to feel comfortable to share your bad thing but also like how you're still here. So you're still sitting at this table you went through essentially eight weeks of hell.

[00:48:52] I don't even know if hell would cover what you've been through. Probably not. So I almost think- Remember at the time he was probably, you were feeling like really secure that you have that person to lean on. Oh yeah, 100%. Even though you were fully abused at that point.

[00:49:09] 100%, this wasn't abusive? You were abused. Yeah, like you were in the abuse. I was in it and I'm deep in it. And I couldn't see it. I need to highlight that like, and this can be opinion for me, whatever you wanna call it,

[00:49:22] but we hear so many stories and we see so many movies and TV shows and things where the shoe's on the other foot. Yeah. Where this is happening to women and it does happen to women and it's tragic and it's fucking tragic. I'm not taking away from that.

[00:49:46] But we're here to talk about men. And so how often do we hear about stories where men are being abused by women? Not very often. All very, very rarely. I think it happens more than what we hear for sure. I would almost guarantee it.

[00:50:00] Which is why I'm so grateful that you're here. I think you need to tell your story and that's your story to share and you've chosen to share it and I'm so grateful but like, I think it does happen. This does happen. Yeah, 100%.

[00:50:14] Like I said before, I know one other guy who had an abuse story with a woman. We won't get into that but it's not my story to tell. But we don't hear these stories but they do happen. Yeah, they absolutely happen.

[00:50:30] As a man, I would feel so much shame. I would feel embarrassed and just I'm not. 100%. How could I be so stupid? How could I, and I'm not trying to put words in your mind. Oh no, no. I'm just expressing how I would feel.

[00:50:42] I've said those exact words to myself. How did I fall for her shit? So you, there were red flags left, right and center and I ignored every single one of them. So you end up in her feedback loop. Let's just call it that. That's really, yeah.

[00:50:54] For eight weeks. Now somewhere in that, I'm assuming the last couple of those eight weeks a light bulb went off or somebody who loves you or cares about you, like you're here now, you're out of it. So maybe talk a little bit about like,

[00:51:12] what was the turning point for you, the TSN turning point? The QRS turning point. The QRS turning point, sorry. You know we can steal it from them. Like when did it get so bad or was something so, just you had to get out? I didn't.

[00:51:29] So it affected, so obviously your family was seeing this. So in all of this, my, the only person to actually have met her in person was my mom and Richard, her husband, my stepdad. Right, so those are the only two, my sister Shelly and Mike, her husband.

[00:51:45] And are you close with your mom and stepdad? Yeah, we're fairly close. Like we live about a block apart. Oh okay. Yeah, yeah. So they know you and you have a pattern of communication with them and did that change? Yeah, 100% and that's where my family

[00:52:00] was starting to notice it. My sister especially, I'm very close with my younger sister Shelly. Obviously my oldest sister Connie as well but she's in Paraguay. It's a little bit harder for her to be physically here. But she was part of the discussion the whole time. Okay.

[00:52:16] Thank God for the internet and all this stuff because 20 years ago we couldn't have that kind of conversation with my sister down there. Now thankfully it's like, I had a two hour phone call with her yesterday on like it was nothing. Yeah, that's awesome. I love that.

[00:52:29] So like they were questioning everything. I was telling them everything. They had a hard time believing what was happening. Like they just didn't get it. They knew my partner from Winkler. They had met her and they like, how that doesn't make any sense

[00:52:46] from the person that we knew. Well she was probably the kind midnight lady. She extremely, she's very much was. My mom loved her because she was the one and only midnight I've ever dated. Really? Yeah. I tried to stay away from my own kind. You shouldn't.

[00:52:59] You belong with your own kind. No. There's too many of my own kind around. Okay fine. My wife is half-minute. So great. Oh that's hot. No I can't. She's a real, she's actually probably more midnight than I am. Yeah, yeah I've talked to her. She's very, very midnight.

[00:53:15] Yeah. Oh yeah. It's the fucking best. But anyway sorry. You have tattoos, you're not, you're not a good man. She does too? Yeah but yours are like very visible. Well this is true, this is true. And then there's some stupid tattoos too. There's some very, you've deviated

[00:53:29] from the good path. I'm the black sheep of the video. So am I though. That's all my family's in Paraguay. So your family was starting to notice. How did they approach you? What was that, what did that feel like?

[00:53:41] Cause you're probably still lost in it at that point. Oh 100% lost yeah. And there was actually a point where Did she work hard to turn you against your family? She worked hard to turn me against Shelley. Because she knew that Shelley and I are fucking close.

[00:53:54] And she knew something, Shelley knew something was up. Okay. Okay. Her husband too, Mike. He knew. Sorry you mentioned that she's a therapist. So like she could see some signs probably right? Absolutely. She saw, she had a hard time believing what was going on and everything.

[00:54:11] So there was a lot of, and this is part of what I'm also having to come to terms with is there was also a lot of let's say strong arguments between my family in the background that I didn't know about until after. Yeah okay.

[00:54:26] Because of what was going on. Because as much as I love my mom, she absolutely 100% believed everything I was in right? And they didn't want to believe that like Shelley and Mike had a hard time believing that this was all real. Oh okay. So they had their doubts.

[00:54:42] They had their own family power. I learned later on that they had been digging and digging and digging for long time. Yeah okay. I have been stressing the shit out of them. My sister ended up like, what is she,

[00:54:54] she took one of her bushes out in the backyard last summer and she like just stripped the damn thing down and burped it because she was like, I was ripping this bush apart stressing out about what was going on in my life.

[00:55:05] Because my ex was showering me with her. She was promising me new trucks and big houses and I didn't have to work if I ever wanted to or if I wanted to just work and just to have a hobby. She's building a comfortable life right?

[00:55:18] But so my parents and my family thought something was Oh yeah, I don't have to worry. Do you get to be true though? Yeah well exactly that's the problem. That's unfortunately, it's part of what I'm- But when you're in it and

[00:55:29] Well you can't see a force from a tree. And it's happening right? Cause she like you said, she was paying for dinners and everything so. She was backing it up in my mind. Yeah, right? She's prude while and she got really good at that.

[00:55:39] Yeah, she got very good at that. How who knows but. She's just very good at manipulating and steering the conversation to go the way she wants it to go. Like and I started seeing Red Flags too cause when we were out at her parents'

[00:55:49] cabin on the hillside there they were visiting with friends and family out there. And she was starting to tell friends and family that we've been dating for a long time already. Oh so she's lying. She's starting to lie right to my face. You're hearing lies, yeah okay.

[00:56:01] And I was like, that's not. But then she's like, oh my family won't understand that because we got married so fast and kind of thing right? Cause that was another thing. I just wanted to kind of go back to that one a little bit. Sure.

[00:56:11] She, just so cause I don't even remember proposing to her. This is another thing that she says I did. That's right but she got me completely black out drunk. But also everything she says is alive. Right. Like what does that actually mean?

[00:56:26] Right so at that time she's like oh no my parents have cameras at the cabin too if you want to see it and there's audio over everything. My parents heard you and everything. I'm like, Sure I'd love to. Okay well see and I should have said that right?

[00:56:38] But yeah but you're in it. You're not, she's got you to a point of weakness where you're not gonna confront her. At that point I'm very much trusting her. And you're not gonna confront her. Cause you're not even at a point of.

[00:56:49] No cause I didn't want to be that dick who's like questioning everything that she says. Although then she'll make you feel awful. Yeah cause when she had a really, when she did lay into me about pretending that I was taking my anger on her

[00:57:01] that really she was very good at taking it out on me right? I should have questioned more. That's part of what I'm facing right? But you're kind and you're passive and so yeah kind and passive. And I trust easily. You might have asked questions

[00:57:14] but you probably would have left it at that. And I believe you didn't want to argue. You didn't want to fight. No I didn't want to fight. I'm not an argue. I don't like fighting. I don't like arguing. And so I believe

[00:57:23] well these people they leech on people like Leo right? Also she knew exactly. Also she knew how to manipulate. Yeah like you were way out of your league. Up against what she's capable of. Oh 100%. And like there's nothing wrong with that. There were people out there like this.

[00:57:36] You would never want to or you can't live a life believing that that's what people are capable of. Cause you know what? Most people aren't capable of that. And most people will never ever do that. Like most people would hear this story and go like how?

[00:57:52] Like that's where I'm sitting at this end of the table and I'm like I'm confused. Because it's so hard to grasp that someone's capable of doing that. Evil thing. And then like the next thing it's like oh you are just pure evil.

[00:58:06] And like I think only once in my life have I encountered someone who I would say is pure evil. And like until you have, you just don't know. Just like another example for like her trying to isolate me or she was trying to isolate me from my sister.

[00:58:21] She had to. She had to. The sister was probably the hardest one for her. That was the hard one. Cause that's what brought her down in the end. She didn't think that my bond with Shelly was that close. She just couldn't. She underestimated how close we are.

[00:58:36] Okay so that's where, that's where she, that was the limit point to where she could manipulate. Was you and your sister Shelly's relationship? Yeah she kept, she would try to just get between all the time and make fun of us right?

[00:58:50] So when did, how did that come to be? So part of why- But Shelly must have stepped in at some point. Oh she did yeah. So part of why I wanted to bring the proposal up was cause also keeping my sister and Mike,

[00:59:06] I proposed, I performed their wedding ceremony. Oh cool. So I was- You're like I made, I married my sister. Like a good man I- Like a good man I thought I am. Sorry Shelly. No I love Mike. He's actually like, so I performed their ceremony for them.

[00:59:26] And so I'm obviously extremely fucking close. Yeah. And she knew. Okay. She knew how close I was. Yeah. And she knew when the wedding was. And she made sure to rush through the, like that's why she started rushing her. Once it got to that proposal stage

[00:59:45] then she started really pushing things a little bit and that's where it fell apart on her I think. Cause she pushed too hard at that point. Cause she, she ended up planning the wedding for the day before my sister's anniversary. Which she knew would fuck it up. Yeah.

[01:00:03] She knew it would cause problems. Yeah. And we were, she's like, oh well maybe just keep this quiet and not do anything. But on that fucking burner phone that she had, she secretly texted people and saying, oh congrats to them for their wedding nuptials and everything.

[01:00:16] Like she would use her burner phone to text my mom and that kind of stuff too. She was purposely stirring the pot while she's trying to make it so that, let's keep this on a down low kind of thing.

[01:00:28] So okay there was a proposal, you actually got married? Yes. So that was the weird part. Is she arranged everything as well? This is like a signed documents thing. Basically yeah we had to go to some place in Transcona where we ended up,

[01:00:42] Oh it's Transcona, it doesn't count. Hopefully I couldn't use that in court. No that probably won't work in court. So for those listening outside of Manitoba or Winnipeg, Transcona is a very popular area. Google it. Yeah just Google it yeah. People like to bash it. Yeah.

[01:00:59] It's actually not a bad area. Okay so you actually got married? We actually got married so we went to a house in Transcona where there's a lady who's dead who works and raises the licenses for the government and everything.

[01:01:08] So we did that, we met with her, we interviewed, we did the whole legit, it was passport, she had her passport, I had mine and everything. What's the timeline after like what we did this? The day you guys met till you got married?

[01:01:20] So the wedding was July 14th. So like six, seven weeks? Yeah it was about six weeks and then I got pulled out of that in my apartment on the July 27th I wanna say yeah. Okay so it was less than two weeks

[01:01:33] that basically two weeks that we heard and I were actually married. So take us through the last two weeks. So that was hectic. It was- One would assume? Cause I wasn't sure how to approach it myself so I didn't really share that information

[01:01:47] with anybody at work even either and she would constantly harass me about that because I was like well this sounds like I was questioning that decision myself. Like why the fuck did I marry? Like I've never married before,

[01:01:59] but she knew that I always wanted to have that marriage, I always wanted to have a family and she was often that she had a 10 year old daughter and I knew her daughter as well, like I hadn't met her and yeah she was promising me that family life

[01:02:13] and she was saying all the right things to me. The thing you wanted. Yep she knew exactly what you wanted. Big fucking surprise. And yeah she just, I don't know I guess she just wanted to, she set everything up for the wedding and everything.

[01:02:27] We just had, they literally came to our house to my apartment in Lorette. They did a quick ceremony, the person who did the ceremony, she brought the witnesses, I didn't even know who they were. I'm assuming your family wasn't there? No, no they didn't know.

[01:02:39] It was a surprise and it shocked my sister that I would do something at that close to her own wedding day. And you know. Those having them there? That's the key right? I would always have wanted, cause I felt when we were going through all this

[01:02:54] I'm like this doesn't feel right, Shelley and Mike aren't here, like I need to have my sister here, like this is, didn't feel the way I wanted it to feel. But again not wanting to be the asshole partner questioning everything that she says, right?

[01:03:06] I go with the flow, okay? Maybe this is just what it is now. So she had me so deep in it, I just assumed this is what it is now of course. I couldn't find my way out. I didn't know, like I knew it wasn't the right decision,

[01:03:19] but I was like how the fuck do I get out of this now? I have no idea without causing a massive legal battle. I have no idea how to get myself out of this shit now. So it was beyond frustrating for me.

[01:03:30] I was lost, I didn't know how the hell to do it. I ended up going to my sister's house about a week after I got married to her and Shelley and Mike wanted me to come over and like discuss what was going on and everything.

[01:03:43] I think it was before I can't see the timeline for me is a little bit fucked up. But we do have the timeline printed out. We'll do it one day. Sure, yeah that's fine. But yeah, I just didn't know how to deal with any of this shit, right?

[01:03:57] So I was completely lost and she didn't know, I didn't know how she was gonna, what the next step was for us either. And it just pissed my sister off too. She just kept digging and digging and digging. Rightfully so, I mean yeah. And that's what it was.

[01:04:17] So it was both my sisters Connie and Shelley both and Mike all three of them were just digging and digging and digging to find information on her like on the King's Court bench on the website and everything and they finally found her name and that's when Shelley,

[01:04:30] so the one very important thing for me that I wanted to kind of discuss like that night that I got pulled out. So it was smooth. To me everything was completely fine, completely normal up until that Wednesday evening. So after work, her and I went to Costco,

[01:04:47] we did a Costco run for the apartment to like get food and shit like that. Then we went to the Montana's for dinner. Like it was just a typical night out, right? I didn't realize at the time that my sister

[01:04:59] and Mike had actually been at my mom's house and they were having a massive fight about all this too because my mom wanted to believe everything that was true just like I did. She wanted the best for me. Just like any mom would want for their kid, right?

[01:05:12] So she wanted the best for me. So she's like, okay, well this woman is giving my son everything he wants in his life. So who might argue with that, right? So it got pretty heated between Shelley and Mike and my family, which again, I didn't know until later

[01:05:26] but that night so we're around 10, 30 that night. Keep in mind, Shelley and I talk and we text pretty much every day but we don't actually call each other very often. So it's very rare, you know, that somebody like calling you,

[01:05:41] you're like, whoa, what the fuck, why somebody calling me? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was, you know, 10, 30. Fucking hate when people call me. I call them all the time. Yeah, I know you do. You do the piss-off. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, 10, 30 at night.

[01:05:52] Shelley sends me a text, she calls me, she goes, can you go outside? I need to talk to you alone. Oh shit, well first of all, you're calling me. That's weird, at 10, 30 at night or Wednesday. She's like, can you go outside? Is she with you?

[01:06:05] I said, yeah, she's right next to me. We were about to watch a movie. So she goes, can you go outside? And I need to talk to you. Okay. Step outside of my balcony and she flat out told me, she's been lying to you.

[01:06:15] She's not who she is. We found out who she is. Everything about her is false. Nothing is like... So keeping in mind too that she, at this point, I hadn't, like, I had already, she convinced me to cut visits with my son. Yeah, okay.

[01:06:31] So my son hadn't seen me in about four, five, well, it was about six weeks at that point already. And what were you, what was your normal? Nothing, no one knew. Yeah, right? So nothing like him and his mom were completely oblivious to any of it.

[01:06:45] So that night I was like, I instantly believed Shelly. It was never a doubt in my mind that she was... Making the supper. She was like, she's not that crazy, jealous sister ever, right? She just wants the best for me as well.

[01:06:59] So when she said to me that everything that she had said was a lie, like it was just like what the fuck? And I looked into my living room and was like, she's fucking sitting on my couch. Like what the fuck do I do now?

[01:07:11] Like I run away, what the fuck do I do? So I said to her, I'm like, well, what about my son? Like Tammy, what about my son's mom? Like does she know what he was? She goes, they don't, they haven't heard anything. Oh, sorry.

[01:07:22] The one detail that I forgot to mention is that she had also gotten to the, she was picking a fight between me and Tammy now, my son's mom. Yeah, of course. She got to the point where she's like, she was going after me for full custody,

[01:07:38] no visitations because of the charges from Winkler that we're coming through. She didn't want me to have anything to do with my son. She was gonna go to the police and have like a protection order. She had a whole, there's a whole other side

[01:07:51] to that story, I don't really wanna get into that. No, we don't. It got really messy with that side of it too. Of course. Well they were all messy, I would only assume. He was all messy. So I just,

[01:08:03] I hung up on my sister that day, like on the balcony. I just hung up on her and I immediately called my son's mom and I said, what is going on? At that point I thought she was legally fighting me already. Again, she had been pretending

[01:08:16] that she had lawyers hiring. So now she's like, well, you know, your ex hired this lawyer to deal with a custody battle for you and with you too now. So we'll just hire this lawyer, will help you battle with her lawyer now. Which also wasn't true.

[01:08:31] There was a whole, what? So your sister, was your sister like on the way to your house at that point? No, no, no, no. Shelly's at home at this point already. She's at her house and she lives in the city here. I mean, Lorette.

[01:08:44] I called Tammy that night and I just, I just flat out asked her, is any of this true? And she goes, what the fuck are you talking about? We haven't heard from you in four weeks or whatever it was. Oh shit.

[01:08:54] She goes, we have no idea what's going on. No one knows where you are. It was like, oh shit. Yeah. Probably the second red flag that, the first one was obviously your sister. My sister calling saying it was all, like everything was a lie.

[01:09:06] And then this was kind of the second, like you finally, the first truth in the long time that you heard. That was the first truth I'd heard in a long time. And then when I got told, we don't know, like we have no idea,

[01:09:15] we haven't heard from you in months or a week. We don't know where you are. Yeah. I was like, fuck something, like this is messed up. So I ended up having to go back and I walked into my apartment and I felt drunk.

[01:09:27] Like I had just, I couldn't walk straight. I couldn't think straight. I was- That's a fucking knock in the head. Oh completely. In my mind, my life had just shattered to million pieces and I couldn't figure out how to pick this up. And I-

[01:09:42] Yeah what do you do, right? My life just got, the rug just got pulled out from underneath and I just, I had no idea. So what did you do? I had to, after a few minutes of trying to collect myself and make sure,

[01:09:54] like I had to throw up in the bathroom. I had to go to the bathroom and throw up because it was just so nauseating. Yeah, yeah. And I was standing in my kitchen and I was looking at her and she's like, what the fuck is going on?

[01:10:02] What is happening? Like what did your sister say to you? And I looked at her and I'm like, none of this legal stuff is true, I said. Where's the lawyers and all this shit? I said, I just talked to Tammy.

[01:10:14] I said, and she has no idea what's going on with any of the legal stuff. She says she hasn't called, she talked to any lawyers. Said nothing is true. And she immediately flipped out. She's like, what the fuck? You just believe your sister over everyone anyways.

[01:10:30] She grabbed her purse and her two phones and she ran out the door. And I was fucking terrified at that point. Like she was angry, had never seen this level of anger because she went from being just a normal person to just psyching, just a heartbeat.

[01:10:44] Psycho all along but. I saw it. Now it's coming out. Now it's coming out so my mom thankfully lives down the street. So I called her, I need somebody here. Like I was devastated. I didn't know what to do.

[01:10:59] And I was talking to Shelly, I called Shelly back and she's like, do you want us to come over? I'm like, yes, just please come over. And so they were there. This is now, this is at 11, 11.30 at night.

[01:11:10] And they spent to my apartment as quick as they could. Thankfully mom and Richard were already there. By the time she came back to try to get back into the apartment. Oh she did come back. Oh she tried to come back. So she tried to come back in

[01:11:24] and she tried to force her way through. She said, because she threatened to call the police and the RCMP on me. She said it was, yeah. She's already showing all her cards. You know what she's gonna do. Oh yeah.

[01:11:35] And we just like, so by the time she came back Shelly and Mike were already there and my mom and Richard were there. She tried to push her way into my apartment. My mom ended up pushing her out a little bit like touching her.

[01:11:48] And then so she later on tried to say that my mom hurt her. Yeah of course. Yeah of course. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. It just got really, she bombarded me and then she started, she would text me and call me from various numbers

[01:12:03] her other burner numbers. Sure. She'd be like all of a sudden she'd be like, oh this is your lawyer we're done. We're not dealing with this anymore. Whatever. Her dad you and I need to talk. And at that point were you already like

[01:12:15] all of this is bullshit or were you still? At this point it was like, this is all bullshit now. And now I know this is bullshit. So you had a wake up call. Yeah I had a call. Now you were awake. Now I'm awake.

[01:12:22] What the fuck this is now none of this is real now. So I got it now. But I was devastated. Oh of course. I couldn't think straight. Well you thought this person that was helping you be she was your emotional support. Yeah.

[01:12:37] Going through all this fake bullshit right? Yeah. And I believed every fucking word she said for the longest time. And so now like in a matter of hours my life has shattered. You've now changed your whole, you figured out all of it was alive. All of it.

[01:12:53] How do you, oh my God. Well and I'm sure you're still processing it to still extend every day. And like we just packed up my clothes and we left. I packed up a bag. And was it your apartment? It was my apartment. It's always been mine.

[01:13:06] She tried to take it over. But also just get the fuck away. Yeah exactly. Just get out. Yeah. We called the RCMP because we had them come over and we were telling him everything. So there's one constable in my apartment talking to me.

[01:13:20] And there was the female officer outside talking to her. Okay. And they came over. We had the whole, I got to have the whole fun conversation with the RCMP that night and everything. And they asked, like they saw that I was the victim here

[01:13:30] and they saw that okay this is not right. And so what we ended up doing is thankfully she really had nothing in my place. Just her clothes. So she was, we packed her bag. We threw all her clothes in a garbage bag

[01:13:41] and out that gave it to the RCMP. Yeah. And they dealt with it. They dealt with it. And they gave it to her. And that was that. That's good. My, that so I was. Was it, was she trying to play that, oh we're married.

[01:13:52] I have the right, blah, blah, blah, right? Obviously. Yeah. She was doing all that, right? So and then so at that point, so I decided, okay, let's just pack her bag and go to Shelley's house. Yep. I can't stay here right now. Yeah.

[01:14:04] So we get to their place. I'm whatever. I couldn't sleep until probably about six, four or five, six in the morning, something like that. And then I was up right away, right? Right. Like I have a futon that I always sleep at when I'm at their place.

[01:14:18] I had to sleep downstairs. I got up super early in the morning. I just went upstairs and like, I just laid down there and I couldn't handle what the fuck was going on, right? I was trying to figure out left from right. I had to call my boss.

[01:14:28] Like now I gotta deal with all this stuff. And my mind is just completely shattered. And I'm having to all of a sudden talk to like call my boss and say, hey, I fell for a fucking scam. Yeah. Sorry. Like kind of some time off.

[01:14:42] Like I'm not, I need some time. I mean I need some time to deal with it, right? So thankfully he was good. That's been the one really good things that he's been a good boss and helping me through that. Especially cause it was a new career

[01:14:53] and everything too. A good boss would do that. So yeah. And he knows it. I've thanked him for it several times and then my work knows about the story a little bit too. Not all the details will probably list to this. Fuck.

[01:15:05] Now we know why he's so fucked up at work. But yeah, I know that. So my first thought was protection order. Yeah. People get a protection order. Like I can't be around this woman. I can't have her anywhere near me. Sorry, just is there a difference

[01:15:21] between protection and restraining order? Same thing. Same thing. Yeah. So I got the night on my protection order though. Oh. Cause I didn't have enough concrete evidence to get it right. So okay. Of course. Yeah. Never dealt with a legal system.

[01:15:36] No idea how the fuck to do with this. Well and if you never have it. I'm running out of sleep. It's super complicated and you're exhausted. I now know how to do it. Yeah. Not unfortunately. Not to be a dick but do you think that the fact

[01:15:46] that you're a man asking for a protection order from one had something to do with it? No, the judge was not like that at all. No. He was not like that. I will say that the justice piece that I got was very good. That's good.

[01:15:56] It's not their job. They're the highest level of people who look at the facts and make a decision on this. You know what, that's a frustrating part of the whole story too is because she ended up getting protection orders and she got them. Against you? Against me. Really?

[01:16:10] At my mom. Yeah. She got a protection order against me and my mom. Probably that contact? Yeah. She tried to make that as my mom assaulted her whatever that bullshit turned out. So she ended up getting, she was successful in getting a protection order against me

[01:16:27] so I had to stay away from my apartment until I could fight that off. Well also she has to stay away from you then which is kind of good. Except in his apartment. She also did not deal with the apartment situation. Well she tried to take it over.

[01:16:40] Well of course. Ever since that Wednesday evening she for the first several days she would just non-stop bombard me. Calls, emails, texts, everything. She sent me an email copying, carbon copying an actual lawyer. Turns out it was actually one of her lawyers. So she knew a lawyer?

[01:17:00] She does know, yeah. She knows a couple of them. There's one line that wasn't completely allowed. He's a fine, I had actually, he did have a conversation with them earlier this year with that same guy that she, and he's a dick-wad. But that's pretty much every lawyer.

[01:17:15] But, but no I saw my protection order was unsuccessful. She got one though so I had to stay out of my apartment for a while right? So I couldn't get back in there. I stayed with Shelly Mike for the longest time actually for about three weeks.

[01:17:27] I stayed two, three weeks. I was in their place. I was gonna say luckily you have good family that you had a place to stay at. And then in August, like that same summer my mom went on a four week vacation

[01:17:37] so they let me stay at their place while they're in that time I was starting to fight the protection order right? Cause in that, so that happened on the Wednesday. By the Saturday we had to call 911 at Winnipeg on it because of her.

[01:17:51] Because she kept, she wouldn't stop. She tried to have me, what's it called? It was a term for it. She tried to have me put into the Salkirk Hospital. Oh geez, really? Yeah, she tried to, she said I was suicidal. I had suicidal thoughts and so I actually

[01:18:09] had still with the fucking manipulat, like it's crazy. I actually had. And she knows what to say and do. Yeah, she does, she absolutely does. Cause I had- She's not stupid. No, she knows what to, she knows the system. Like she's a fucking idiot. She knows the system.

[01:18:22] But she's not stupid when it comes to what she's trying to accomplish. Yeah, and then she got that. What's your end game in this? Can I ask that? I don't know. Yeah, right. What's the end, what's the mission here? What are we trying to do? I honestly think-

[01:18:33] I still don't know to this day. If you think about like some serial killers from the, you know, and like these people- Like maybe the thrill is just the- I don't think it's a thrill. I think they truly believe that that's the only person

[01:18:45] that you need to be with and nothing else is valid. But like- That's the control for you. She was isolating me. Yeah, that's fair. Cause she was talking about even moving to Alberta and all this time. It's almost like they're so obsessed with being the one person, right?

[01:19:00] Yeah. So now what? So that was a Saturday. Oh, little sidebar to that story is like I ended up calling one of my old friends from when I was like, I've known this girl since I was seven, eight years old. We'd been family friends ever since.

[01:19:19] I just happened to reach out to her. One that was like, can you and your husband just- You and Jay, can you guys come over and hang out with my sister? And I'll tell you the story. And she, it was crazy that just

[01:19:30] I needed to talk to somebody, right? So out of the blue, I just called her. I was like, whatever, I'll call Jen. What if you like to tell the story? Same looks like- That must have been the first time you've told this story.

[01:19:41] Other than to your sister, I guess your family does. But also keeping in mind that it was actually ongoing when I was talking to Jen and Jay. I was telling them the story. It got to a point where I have, I've been diagnosed with PTSD

[01:19:52] and depression and anxiety now. The PTSD becomes by my phone because she constantly harassed me over the time. I ended up chucking across the yard last summer because I was like, fuck, this is enough. It got to a point where Shelly actually ended up filtering my phone.

[01:20:08] I didn't even touch my phone for a few days because she filtered everything to make sure that what was being said because on top of all this, she was also making fake Facebook posts about me. Oh good. And she is still posting on those anonymous dating sites

[01:20:20] that are we doing the same guy or whatever? She only recently posted me again saying that- Oh, that Facebook, yeah. Yeah, okay, yeah. That fucking mad man. She's still trying to make it seem like I'm a douchebag right now. So she's still, I mean, I can't say that

[01:20:34] she's the one doing it, it's anonymous. But no one else has that picture of me except for her. So now I'm at this point, I'm at my sister's house basically just staying there. She, I mean, she took care of everything for me for the longest time.

[01:20:49] Thankful for that. You needed it. I needed it, absolutely. So the one night that we were kind of like, it was kind of calming down for us one evening. It was like a Thursday evening or something like that. And we were okay, it's about nine o'clock.

[01:21:01] Let's just wrap it up and let's just kind of get ready for bed, right? My brother-in-law, we play a game of, we play Overwatch online. So he's like, how about we play a couple rounds and we'll call it a night. I'm like, yeah, sure that sounds good.

[01:21:11] And just as we stood up to go play games, I got a phone call checking on my mental well-being because shit called it in. They did a welfare check on me. Yeah, okay. But thankfully again, you know, Shelly being a therapist,

[01:21:26] she was part of every phone call conversation and she said to them like, look, this is who I am. This is my, this is my credentials here. This is where I work. Here's my phone number if you need it. And so he said, okay, well, I trust that,

[01:21:39] you know, you're with the sister, you're with family, you sound like you're in good health and good well-being. Cause she had been telling people that I was suicidal, I was threatening to make. Yeah. Yeah, so, like not 10 seconds later after we hung up,

[01:21:54] the guy calls my sister right away just like, okay. Well, fine. That's their job. It's good that they do that actually. Like that's not a bad thing. So then, at this point I'm dealing with the RCMP. They know me already. We've had a few conversations.

[01:22:09] They know what's going on right now. So the RCMP officer was talking to, she says unfortunately she was successful in getting the protection order and I have to serve you with it. Okay. Now she said, she's trying to get into your apartment.

[01:22:21] So she goes, I'll tell you this, I'll do, she goes, if you come down to the station like the St. Pierre's Relief Station, she goes, I'll serve you with the protection order. And then she goes, leave your keys for me here

[01:22:31] and I'll use them to bring her to the, because she was at that point going to press charges on her. Yeah, okay. So she used my apartment keys to lure her there. What charges can she press to you? The RCMP charged her with harassment.

[01:22:46] Oh, they charged her, oh, okay. Sorry, I thought they were charging you. No, no, no, no. Oh, okay. They had to serve me with the protection order. She wanted your keys so she could get to her. She, yeah, the RCMP officer wanted my keys

[01:22:56] so she could lure my ex to the station. So they could charge her? So they could charge her or arrest her and charge her. Oh, okay, okay. So I got the protection order. That's smart, I like that. That's what they did. So they charged her with criminal harassment.

[01:23:11] There was obstruction of justice because she would lie about all sorts of things. There's about four, five, I can't remember the exact charges that she was facing for me, but that's what they charged her with. Unfortunately at that point, I couldn't get him back into my apartment though.

[01:23:22] So she kind of won on that one. Oh, shit. So that was, I had to go to, once I got served that order, the protection order was in the following Monday. My brother-in-law and I went right from the RCMP station to the courthouse and we got,

[01:23:40] it's like to try to start fighting this protection order kind of thing, right? So you could get back in your fucking apartment? Yeah, my life back. And I got a text from, or got a call from the RCMP officer saying, hey, by the way,

[01:23:53] you're gonna be getting a phone call from so-and-so just so you know, I know who they are and they wanna talk to you. Okay. Wanna pick police? Yeah, okay. Nothing to do with the RCMP investigation now, this is one of the police.

[01:24:06] At least she's giving you a heads up. Yeah, well, the shitty part. Because now at this point when your phone rings, you probably don't believe anything you're hearing. No, exactly that's the shitty part because I'm sitting in the fucking courthouse waiting for my number to get called up

[01:24:16] and I got a text saying, here's the information of the person that's gonna be calling you. But it was a delay in the, like she took a picture of the police officer, or sorry, the police officer, she took a picture of her card,

[01:24:31] sent it to me and also sent me a long text with it. But the picture came in way after the actual text message. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm reading this message and going, is that a legit? I've seen so many of these kinds of messages.

[01:24:43] Well you must be questioning everything ever that comes through your phone. Absolutely, everything. I had no idea what was coming through and then all of a sudden her card popped up, I'm like okay she's actual police. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's real police. So she says to me,

[01:24:56] your name came across my desk and we'd like to talk to you. I was like oh shit, what, yeah. Well something completely different yet too now. Oh. So yeah. She said I know you're going through a lot right now and she said, but when you have time,

[01:25:10] she goes we just wanna have a conversation with you about your ex. We know who she is and we wanna have a conversation with her. At any point in all these conversations and I just have to ask, did you call a lawyer? Yes. Okay. Yes, several. Okay, good.

[01:25:23] They all, yeah. No I know. They all help. A lot of them. Yeah, we definitely called lawyers. Okay, good. For sure. That was part, we had like several phone calls lined up with several lawyers until we settled on the one that we actually had on the firing.

[01:25:34] Yeah, that's good. But. Sorry, carry on. No, no, that's fine. Yeah, so I said this constable or this detective case was her. She ends up getting me to come down to the Winnipeg police station. So I go down there, she barrels me through metal detectors

[01:25:48] and all and just we ended up having a two hour session in a padded room where I got to do the whole like, I swear to the truth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did the whole, I gave my full on witness to,

[01:25:59] because my family had actually done that before to the RCMP already too. Oh no. Yeah, given official statements to the RCMP which led to the arrest initially. And then so this detective then asked me to come in to share my side of the story

[01:26:13] because she's wanted for other things now too. Okay. There's a good, we found out that in all my sisters digging, there was a horse expo like E, I'm not talking about equine expo. Okay. That she had scanned about $100,000 out of. Who? That's a baby,

[01:26:30] then no wonder she's paying for you. That's how she's got the money. And then there was another one where there's, this one really hit my sister hard is there had been a fundraiser for a girl with it was on the autism spectrum for a service dog.

[01:26:45] They raised about 18 grand for her to get the service dog and I never got the money. So she took it. She scanned fucking mother. But again, we shouldn't be surprised that this is. No, this is just what she is right now. No, no, this is surprising.

[01:26:58] But so it's all just. That answers the question how she has all the money. Yeah, there you go. Potentially. And then who knows? Those are the only two things that he has no of. That I know of. Yeah. So there's potentially more out there.

[01:27:08] So I gave the information all to them. That ended up getting, I don't know the details on that one. So much either. But that ended up getting her, they ran out the door when I was leaving. Basically now, so then after that what happened is,

[01:27:21] so we ended up hiring this lawyer that of all things had already been dealing with her. Oh, really? He already knew who, because when I emailed him. He knew who she was. When I emailed this lawyer, he's like, I gotta be honest.

[01:27:36] He goes, I thought it was a scam. I didn't believe it was a real email when I first got it because he goes, that name invokes a lot of mistrust in him. He already knew who she was. And I didn't know this. So hence why I hired him,

[01:27:50] because on the King's court bench, that's where I found out that just before me there had been two other victims like this. Oh, well, let's use this guy. Pile on. They never got as far as she did with me, right? Yeah, yeah. They got out before,

[01:28:03] but she still tried to go after them too, get protection orders and all that too. So one guy hired this lawyer and I ended up hiring the same lawyer. By the time we were doing all the paperwork and for that, by the time it got to court,

[01:28:16] she automatically dropped it all. She's a guy I'm not, she was forced to drop it all because, oh yeah. That's the least of her worries. Yeah, so. I would assume. Now keeping in mind, so I got a call from the constable or from the detective.

[01:28:33] I remember it was a Friday after, Friday early morning, lunchish, I remember being at work and I got a phone call and was like, okay, I need to answer this one. So I go to the back room, I was not working

[01:28:44] and she's like, oh, the detective case called me. She said, by the way, we picked her up last night and we interrogated her until six in the morning. So it was like eight PM Wednesday to like six AM. I mean, Thursday morning, they had an interrogation room.

[01:28:58] Finally, the resources are going to the right place. And she said she confessed to all her lies about me. Okay, so she, fuck yeah. Yeah, that's a huge win. They finally, oh, my coworker saw me that like walking around back and she's like, are you crying?

[01:29:14] Like yes, but these are happy tears. I said, these are, because they had seen me break down several times. Oh yeah. At this point already. So when the detective case called me and says she's admitted to her lies and she was arrested, it was like, oh thank God,

[01:29:26] I just felt so really. So does that negate the protection order? No. Oh, her protection order on me? No. Oh, okay. That's still. Really? Okay. I have the transcript of what she said to the judge to get the protection order on me.

[01:29:43] Well, you don't need to share it out. No, but it's fucking hilarious. I would assume so. You can, I'll let you read it one day. It's, there's not an ounce of truth in any of that shit. She's claiming that we have a two and a half year old

[01:29:55] daughter, which I, yeah. Where's she gonna find a baby? Apparently she was living in Calgary. Yeah, she'll steal one from somebody. Yeah, probably, yeah, exactly. She'll get it from her. Sinking husband or whatever. I apparently had a two and a half year old daughter

[01:30:10] in Calgary that I didn't know about. What's your daughter's name? Apparently it was Rebecca something. Oh, that's nice. It's a very cute name. And so you were here. And she was here and it was there by herself. Yeah, no, remember I have a vasectomy. Yeah.

[01:30:23] Well, that's shocking, a miracle baby. Yeah, it's Jesus. See, we go back to Jesus. It all goes back to Jesus. Oh, every time. So because she admitted all this stuff, now I'm assuming your, like your case against her isn't yours personally. Is the crown? That's the crown.

[01:30:46] I have nothing to do with that. It's the crown. So you're just like, you've given your statement, you're a witness that can be accessed. Yeah, if it goes to trial. But outside of that, the crown, it's all the crown's charges. It's not at you against her.

[01:30:56] No, no, it's the crown pursuing everything on her. Okay, gotcha. And that's where there's multiple charges other than for me. So for me, because she's now facing, I was so, like, I was very motivated initially to deal with all this stuff.

[01:31:13] And I slowly over time have watched it lost a little bit of that motivation because it was exhausting. It's so legal paper. Well, and now it can't be much you can do at this point. No, so, I mean, we're divorced. We're legally married at this point, right?

[01:31:26] So now we're having to file for divorce. So she files for divorce, has me served. I have to fill out all this paperwork. I can't afford to hire a lawyer to deal with all this shit. That you've already spent time.

[01:31:36] I've already hired a lawyer to, like at this point, my family had to hire a lawyer to get rid of the protection order for me. So I can't afford to hire a lawyer to deal with that side of things, right? So, because she's asking for like spousal support

[01:31:48] and claiming she's pregnant. Just delay it until the shit's over. Gets really good there. Maybe I shouldn't say that actually. Am I allowed to say it? So I did all the proper steps, right? I took all the proper steps. I responded to the paperwork that I was neat,

[01:32:02] that I need to do. I took the time to do it all properly. And thankfully I went to that legal help center in Portage Place. Oh yeah, yeah, okay. So they're helping me out there actually quite a bit. Cool, okay. Because that's free. It's a fantastic resource.

[01:32:14] We'll share it over here right now. I'll link to that page or to their website. Yeah, well, lawyers are fucking expensive. They are. And sometimes you really just need legal help. And if there's these free clinics. Well, we called a couple of places

[01:32:27] and once I gave them a brief description of what was happening, they go, yeah, our retainer fee is $10,000 because they knew how crazy it was gonna get. Like fuck, I can't, what? Oh that's pretty cheap. Pretty good. So it was a-

[01:32:38] I never had to call a lawyer in my life. I have. I know like a lot of them in the last little while. Should we? No, we don't have it on us. No, no, no. Give them a show about me here. Yeah, well, I like to see you.

[01:32:51] No, no, we're gonna discuss now your little legal matter. We're gonna leave that alone. That one I can't say, I don't know. I'm not saying nothing. Oh good. But no, now, so now- Okay, so you got some, you had some advice. Some counsel. I've gotten some counseling.

[01:33:05] I've gotten the help I need. I filed all the paperwork properly to respond to her, to everything. So we end up getting a triage meeting. I got an email in December. One of the court clerks asking, like asking what time I'm available for a triage meeting with her.

[01:33:18] Okay. To- So a triage meeting meets with both parties? Between both parties and a lawyer? Or between a judge? She's not there. She's there. Oh, fuck. Yeah. So early January, we go to courts. This is the first time that she meets my sister. Because Shelly came with me.

[01:33:36] And we were sitting in front of the court, or the judge, or the courtroom that we were about to go into. And she walks by and that's the first time she saw her, she's like, ugh. I just kept walking. She knew that it was my sister

[01:33:48] that had caused all the problems for her. And that had- Of course. Found out who she was. She's the problem. Yeah, she found out- That's her fault. Yeah, of course. That was her famous thing. It's not my fault. Yeah. She always said that,

[01:34:01] she used to say that to me, it's not my fault. But God, that first, I walk into the courtroom and she's sitting like six feet away from me on the other table. And the clerk leaves to go get the judge. And just her and I sitting there.

[01:34:17] The longest fucking two minutes of my life. I've got like three hours sitting there. My heart's racing at 1,000 miles an hour. Like, what the fuck? I didn't want to sit next. I didn't want to look at her. And, but thankfully the judge came in.

[01:34:29] She looked over it all. And because she was asking for all sorts of things. She's asked for spouse support and claiming she was pregnant. And so she went to child support and all this. And she's like, oh you're pregnant?

[01:34:40] And I said, do you go on your eye of vasectomy? Like- I'm sorry. And again, this is all information that I've given freely given to- Of course. To our CP and the police as well. I literally give them my health documents. Like here, this is my vasectomy.

[01:34:53] This is who did it on this day. And they go, okay. The judge sat there. It wasn't a very long meeting. It's funny it almost didn't happen though. Because she has a protection order or no contact order to me. Oh, okay. So she can't be anywhere near me

[01:35:09] or anyone in my family or my son, his mom and her husband. Okay. So she can't be anywhere, she can't be anywhere near us and she can't contact us. And I didn't ask for that. I was given that by the police. Yeah. That you should have been.

[01:35:23] That's the right move on the police as part of it. So the judge sat there and she goes, we're just gonna call this what this is. She goes, we're gonna grant you your divorce based on mental cruelty. Nice. That's it. So just like that. That's fucking great.

[01:35:37] That's a win. See now you're starting to win a little bit. The one last little fuck you she did to me though. Right at that meeting she's like, oh I'll have my lawyer right up the documents. Cause the judge said to me

[01:35:46] well she was trying to lay out to me okay now we'll talk to that legal help center again. Ask them what the next step. They're gonna have to guide you into the next steps. Cause it's all these documents. She goes, I don't know exactly which form

[01:35:57] but the legal place center will help you with that. I'm like okay. But then she pipes up and she says, oh I'll just get my lawyer to write it up for us. So that this, and then I'll cover all the costs for everything. Fuck you.

[01:36:08] And the judge said yes. Fuck. God damn it. So I'm still dealing with it. Yeah. So almost done now. Almost done now. I just got an email from them earlier this week. Okay. So this is still like. They have my next email from them

[01:36:21] and we'll be coming inside the document so it can be filed and then she has to get served. And then. Well it's a judge's order. Like there's no fucking. That was the key to me though. Up until then, now part of like going through Christmas and all that

[01:36:35] was killer for me. Yeah. Cause at this point I hadn't seen my son in weeks and or long time. And it was one of those things and Christmas was really fucking hard. Like I barely made it through Christmas. When she called, you know,

[01:36:51] to have me kind of institutionalized. Saying I was suicidal. That was more closer to Christmas. That was, I would say that was my, that was where I was dipping into like the zero. It's like I'm not happy. I need to get this out.

[01:37:04] But I will honestly say like once I got that verdict from the judge that fucking lifted like a world off my shoulder. Well it's the rest of the world having faith in you and finally believing. Somebody finally said, this is what actually happened. Like believing in the truth.

[01:37:20] Yeah, supporters now on the other side. It's not you against her. And I will say every aspect of the legal system that I've been through since like the RCMP officers have all been females. Been fantastic. Which is awesome. I love to hear that. Yeah. Actually the police,

[01:37:36] the Winnipeg police detective that I talked to, she reminded me a lot of my sister actually as well. But they joked about hiring my sister as a cop and she goes, I'm only good at hiring, looking out for one person. That's my brother. That's not an,

[01:37:48] I'm not good like. I can't do this for everybody. Well they're people. Like they're all just people. You realize that when you- Yeah, like what I meant was she's like afterwards. Sad for you that you had to go through all of this.

[01:38:00] Like that, sad for you is an understatement. It doesn't even capture what I'm trying to say. But like, you know, like you meet some police and you meet some RCMP and you meet some lawyers and you meet some cops and you meet some judges

[01:38:12] and like it's not all shit. It's not all shit. What they all said was that she very well, she was manipulative and smart to the point where she knew the system. Of course. Well enough because She got really fucking good at it.

[01:38:29] The protection order that she got from my mom against my mom, she came from Brandon. She went all the way to Brandon to get that. Just to get, yeah. Right? She plays that game right? Well and that's her full time job. Like that's what she does,

[01:38:40] is she works- Purposely drove all the way to Brandon just to do that. Well they can, that must be exhausting to be that fucking psychopath. I can't imagine. Like that must be so exhausting. She feeds off this. She feeds off this. Where's it?

[01:38:51] Ah, we don't need to take back into that actually. She would like sleep on two or three hours a night. That was it. Well yeah you got it. There was a little bit of Coke involved probably in there somewhere. Again that's what she would,

[01:39:01] if she wears drugs like that I didn't ever see it right? I saw the weed and I drinking but that's about it. But you know what I was gonna say- Weed and drinking is legal, that's fine. You know what's fucked up thing is that all of it?

[01:39:13] All of it. The whole fucking thing? I still haven't told you. There's so other details that I- little stuff that doesn't really relevant. Yeah. But you know, you can know a person for six weeks and get married to that person. But even with all this evidence,

[01:39:30] even the judge granting you the divorce it still takes so fucking long. The legal system is painful. And it's like why can't the judge say, okay sign here, sign here, your divorce now done. It doesn't work out. Right? Especially because you didn't have any,

[01:39:48] like you didn't really have the house together. Like that was your apartment, right? It wasn't in her name. Never. She tried. Yeah. And you guys had no kids and stuff. So in this case it should've been done like so much faster. Here you were- We're on this month's-

[01:40:03] And do process. Well and I get it. Just takes what it takes. It's frustrating, my step dad was very frustrated with the boot because the protection order that my mom got? Even though it wasn't, she tried to take one out on my step dad too.

[01:40:15] But that was unsuccessful. That one was denied. But because my step dad's a hunter and the protection they live together, he had the RCMP had to come and take all his guns away. So he's so mad about that. No shit. Right around-

[01:40:28] You don't take the guns away from a hunter. So that was a very long frustrating process. Well all of it is. Like it, yeah. And it's just process and everyone- But the thing is if you don't do that. And really until they figure it out

[01:40:39] nobody knows the truth. And like you just, yeah. The system is extremely slow, I get it. But also it's there for a reason. It's so far worked for you. Everybody's like she has the right to appeal all this stuff. And done the right thing. Yeah. Like we have,

[01:40:53] and so when it was all going down there was a guy that worked in my, that was sort of the caretaker of my apartment. He was trying to, he was sort of a family friend of ours. And he was trying to do all this.

[01:41:02] Like he's like, oh I'll do all this. Like no, no, I don't want anything illegal done to blockade my apartment. Everybody's willing to do illegal shit. Because I don't, I wanted to do this by the books. I didn't want to be caught red handed doing something illegal.

[01:41:13] You don't want to do something that's going to fuck you over later. Right, yeah. And just let the law do like, I think in most cases the law is slow but it is just. It is, yeah. I don't think a hundred percent of the time

[01:41:25] but I think most of the time it is. Yeah and I think that's where, that's where I feel for me this is, that's what has happened with this case for me. Yeah. Holy fuck. I think most of the time at the end of the day

[01:41:37] scumbags will get their, you guys are scumbags. Well I mean, scumbags. Don't sour that word. The bat, okay. That word is, there's way too, are you talking about, I thought you were actually talking about beef for us or like. There's way too much law in that word.

[01:41:50] At the end of the day, like these people that do no good to others. You know, narcissists, sociopaths, psychopaths. You know, life will hand them the shit. You'd like to, I really hope so. I really hope so. You'd like to hope so. I do believe in that.

[01:42:06] But I want to focus a little bit on, so you're getting now positive outcomes slowly. Yeah, so that was a big weight off my shoulder getting these wins. Getting that. One thing I also did is just before Christmas, which helped me a little bit too,

[01:42:20] is I put myself on anti-depressants. I called my doctor and I said, and sometimes you have to do that. You know what? I can't do this. I need something and he understood. Like I went to the conversation. So now he's, Were you smoking weed at the time? Yes.

[01:42:33] And that just wasn't enough. It was, it picked up. And it was making it worse. Cause it just picks up your anxiety more and more. I'd like to have a conversation with you about that off the mic. Yes, sure. But yeah, that was another,

[01:42:50] she just kept me drunk and high all the time. Right? So that was- You liked that. You do. You can do anything you want to be. I mean, what's going on after the show today? Am I staying after the show a little bit longer? I've had a few.

[01:43:06] Which one do you gotta work Tommy? Don't worry about that. No, I think like, that's good, good for you. I mean, if that's something you need and like coming out of, that's trauma. Like you said, PTSD. Like- Cause I still, on the way here, her car,

[01:43:21] she drives the red car, the red Fugitive Luster drives. Any fusion of that car. Every time. I fucking my heart dude. And I watched that car. I look for it and I circle. I still go through and my like that experience was not what yours was.

[01:43:36] But like when I see the car of the person I fucking hate, like- I'm like that with your car. If I see a little bit- I'm like, oh is that Tim? I get a little bit- Should we go for it? Ramp off the rail.

[01:43:47] I get a little bit upset. Like just for a second, it might be flash. But like I'll, until those cars disappear, I'll just always think about it. That's- I mean you have a million things that probably did that right? Even at work, is the block number anonymous?

[01:44:00] The phone number calls at work. I'm like- I don't wanna answer that one. I know- And it's just probably a Chinese scam or whatever. Anytime with anonymous, I know that number. It's one of my locksmiths that calls me all the time. He doesn't want his number given out.

[01:44:11] So I know who it is. But it's just like, I see it and I'm like, whoa, it's just flashbacks into that. Well that's trauma. That's just- But what I wanted to get to, so yeah you have these wins. And you kind of said

[01:44:22] that you've cut your son out a little bit out of your life. Not on purpose. You mentioned it for like the four weeks she kind of made you cut your- We did have a conversation. I did have- I did meet with him

[01:44:33] and kind of tried to explain this, but he's 13. He's not gonna understand it yet. And so yeah, like you kind of mentioned and if we don't- If you don't want to air this, that's fine. But like you kind of mentioned so there is a little-

[01:44:46] He doesn't wanna talk to you right now. And is that because of that? That period? Yeah. Because he feels I abandoned him. Okay. Right, he feels- Yeah, and it's happened to him unfortunately before. And that's like his grandpa abandoned him once, but he was really close

[01:45:00] with grandpa on his mom's side. And he all of a sudden found a girlfriend after he had been through a divorce. So he left and my son was hurt by that. He's got two step sisters that are very much in and out of his life all the time.

[01:45:13] Okay. And his mom's had a couple failed relationships too. So it's- It's him that's about consistency. So there's an apprehension. And it's again, he's autistic. Yeah. And that's part of the thing like because there's a potential that I'm also in the spectrum. Okay. And which it's potentially genetic

[01:45:29] and that's where he has it as well. Yeah. But so all that stuff affects me then too because I handle things differently when things like that happen, like when all this overwhelming shit happens to me because she knew like she knew that I was I had that

[01:45:45] certain things would trigger me. So like driving out to her family's cabin up in Grand Beach, crank the AC and crank the music. She knew that overwhelming sense is like crazy. Oh, okay. She shocked me on that stuff, right? She purposely did it to break me down

[01:45:58] so that she could feel the art. Like she knew what she was doing. Like I would not stupid. Yeah, I would never think of this shit. No, she's unbelievably evil, but she's not stupid. But wrapping my head around imagine if you just did good things

[01:46:11] with that level right? How much good she could do. The intelligence, my sister. Yeah, that's what she does. Yeah, she's a therapist. She puts it to good work. Yeah, that's what she's not. I'm not saying she manipulates people, but she's very good at helping people understand

[01:46:24] what they're going through and helping them figure out how to move forward. If you can manipulate someone to that level of a negative extent, you can also help people that much more positively. That's what therapy is because it's de-manipulating or she can die and burn in health

[01:46:39] for all I give a fuck. She can. No, but that's the thankful thing that I have is that Shelly is a therapist. Yeah, I have that to lean on. Although I don't want to lean on that too heavily. You should get your own therapist. I know.

[01:46:52] You guys have a good sponsor, apparently, too. Just for the record, you should get your own. Zonir is the thing with his sister. Can't be a therapist. Oh, no. And that's I had to pull back on that, right? Because I saw myself going,

[01:47:02] oh, no, no, no, I can't. I can't give. No, I can't use yours. Is it there? I need to I need to I was a third party outside. Info after the show on better health. Like it's for sure. Yeah, because it's it's the one thing

[01:47:13] that I haven't done yet. Unfortunately, I don't know why. I can't get my son. So it's OK. You know, whenever you're ready, you have that phone call. Like I have gone to the therapy before. It's not a new concept for me. It's just this time. I don't know.

[01:47:27] I just couldn't get myself to. I've been in survival mode since that happened, basically. I have only been able. And that's also one of the other reasons that's so difficult for me and my son's situation right now is because I can just. Now, now it's

[01:47:43] it's getting a little bit more brighter and a little bit more positive. But there was a long time where I could just barely get up to go to work. And as soon as I got home, I had no desire to go out anywhere.

[01:47:53] Yeah, I would just I would plan everything I wanted any air in a need to run any, you know, grocery shopping. I would plan that on my way home so that I never had to leave my house once I got back in there.

[01:48:06] Because the day that I got my apartment back, I moved all like that was the only thing my my sister, my mom and stepdad, actually took all my valuable things out of my apartment and brought it to their place. Yeah.

[01:48:17] In case she was going to get in there and try to steal my squad. Right. For sure. Awesome. So all my gaming systems, everything was like they brought it all of my TVs and everything, all the expensive stuff like the couchers. But yeah.

[01:48:29] So as soon as I got my apartment back, yeah, I moved it all back that day. Yeah. And I just wanted to be back in there. So I think part of it was like I miss my home and I couldn't have my home for a longest time.

[01:48:39] So I want to be back home. So I was always wanting to as soon as I had the opportunity to go home, go home, yeah, and stay home. Yeah. It was your safe place. That was my safe place. Yeah. And that was that's still to a degree

[01:48:50] is very much my safe place still now. It takes when I go out like if I go out for a day, I'm exhausted for the next two or three days. Yeah. So for sure. That's just mentally it's better. It's getting better now. You're healing and you're like

[01:49:05] you went through a terrible trial. Like it takes healing and that's going to show itself in a bunch of ways. And that's part of what my trip down visiting back home to Paraguay to my sister down there. Yeah. Is going back to Christmas

[01:49:16] to just to kind of heal a little bit. See my old home again and see my sister and see my nephew. Well, and have a better Christmas for fuck's sake. This one was hard. I couldn't I didn't see my son. Yeah, we're around here.

[01:49:28] I and that's, you know, again, your podcast is what actually got me like I listened to some of your shows too. And I was like, that's what kind of inspired me. Like you guys being out there like right now,

[01:49:38] I'm not realizing that this is going to be seen and heard by those hundred people. So yeah. But once that hits me, go fuck. But it's I was nervous to come on to the show too. But nervous in a good way

[01:49:47] because I haven't really told a whole lot of people. That's fair. Yeah. What is this happening? There's a lot of shame and guilt for me, right? Because there's so much that I should have seen that I should have caught ahead of time.

[01:49:58] But yeah, but every story that comes through the store, including our own is full of should've, wish I would have hindsight 2020. Absolutely. Like every single one of them is like, I didn't see it happening. I didn't like from your episode to my episode like the first two episodes.

[01:50:16] It's full of a whole bunch of that. And like, yeah, we're all like, no, and that's why we're human beings. We make mistakes. We don't, you know, we don't see it through, you know, what they say, the third eye, right?

[01:50:29] And what I love is we're just we're all still here to talk. Well, exactly. And we and I think that's how we get better is like we fuck up to learn from our mistakes. Right. And this one to me was a big fuck up.

[01:50:42] I slept up big time on this one. I fell flat on my face and I'm still trying to, you know, the good thing is for me, I've had a good support system. Like my family's been fantastic. Sounds like you have amazing support. Yeah.

[01:50:55] My sister has been so her and Michael never know how much I appreciate them and how much I just love the shit out of them. Yeah. Did you tell them every time? Every fucking time. I tell them all the time. Sure, you did.

[01:51:08] I told my sister that just before she was texting me like she knows part of Shelley's concern for me is like these are still very raw emotions for me. So she goes, just make sure you have something set up

[01:51:18] afterwards after the show just to make sure you're OK. Yeah. And so they are looking out for me and making sure. We got a rum. That's what I look out for. Yeah. Good old bumboo. No, like I said, good support system.

[01:51:31] My work has been great that way too. My boss knows a little bit about what's going on. Yeah, that's really good. Because she did try to call my work and try to. She probably tried everything to fuck you up. She tried to call our head office and say,

[01:51:43] well, you have an employee that has protection order from anything and everything. Blah, blah, blah, bullshit, bullshit. So he knew it. He saw right through it. And as soon as she called, I've already reported that he had the detective's phone number.

[01:51:58] And so I gave that information to him too. And just so he could verify all the information. Because I said to her, the detective, I'm like, how do I explain this to my boss? And she goes, let me talk to him. Yeah, I'll have it.

[01:52:09] I think she did. But he reported that phone call to the police as well. Perfect. They've all been extremely helpful. I have a victim's service worker that calls me to give me updates. And the lunch. Well, that's what you are. That's exactly what it is.

[01:52:23] You're a victim of somebody. And that's OK. Yeah, because it's now in the crown's hand, I'm out of it. Unless it goes to a trial, which I doubt it will. It's 26 charges altogether. Cool. Five for me and then the rest are from God knows

[01:52:45] I know there's and I won't go into the story but there's Calgary police are also involved. There was a situation in Calgary. There was two guys before me that she did this too. Just for the record, this is all public knowledge. This is all public knowledge.

[01:52:56] This is all like if you go on the on the on the Kings bench, you can see her name. She did this to two other guys after me. Oh really? So like it's like this last year. Yeah. Right. So that same summer.

[01:53:10] So one of my friends that lives in St. Anne, her she's her ex husband. They have two kids together and they were out of one of their kids games last summer. And she she's got she's close with her ex.

[01:53:23] So she looked over and just happened to see that he was messaging with a new girl, a new girlfriend. And she he had she happened to see the name pop up and it was her name. So my friend text me right away. She goes, what was it?

[01:53:37] Wasn't that? Yeah. Isn't this her name? Was like, yeah. What does she look like? So I sent her picture and she goes, yeah. My ex was just talking to her. She was trying the same thing. Well, she just will endlessly. And he said the same thing.

[01:53:50] She had she had said all the right things. Yeah. She knew exactly what to say because he had just caught out of a relationship as well three months before that. So he was delicate. So she knew how to play into that. And she was vulnerable and praying on.

[01:54:03] She's a man. She will do the same forever. And all like they all saw that she was she knows how to manipulate the system. She knows how to say what she wants to get what she wants from the system that's designed to protect people, not to harm them.

[01:54:17] But she's using it to harm people. She's the way the best way that the detective put it to me was that she's basically using what's intended to be as a shield, as a sword. Yeah. That's a great way to put it.

[01:54:28] And people can like if you do if you play it right. And if you're and she tried if you're that evil, you can figure that out. She definitely tried only for so long. I'm curious to find out what whatever if I ever would find

[01:54:41] out, but like you know what she tells other people about me after the fact. Right. So it's awful to other people have tried to take production orders against her after me now too. So it's it's no stop with her. Right. It just doesn't stand now.

[01:54:55] She has my last name too. That's a shitty part. So another I think that was part of it. Yeah. I think that was part of it because so the Wednesday that I got pulled out, I was supposed to go and sign

[01:55:05] documents that Friday to take over a whole bunch of accounts from her was I think she was trying to dump off some of her shit on me. Yeah. OK, that's my theory. I don't know if there's any truth to that.

[01:55:15] But like you go to this like like you take someone else's last name and then you go on like just like, oh nothing happened. I'm going to go tackle a couple other dudes and like. Yeah. That's what she did. I'm just like yeah. Wow.

[01:55:28] You know what the messed up part was there was one day when it was just me and her and her daughter at her parents' cabin and I was getting along really well with her like her. I got along well with her daughter. Right.

[01:55:38] So we're playing a little kind man and her giant teddy bear. Her daughter was in need of somebody caring. You could tell she didn't get all clearly the mother doesn't give no shit. So she lost onto me. She's busy. Yeah.

[01:55:55] When she would do that when she would when she would see that I was getting close to her daughter, she would pull me away from her. She would say come to the bedroom before we go out. Yeah, of course. I was like OK.

[01:56:06] But leaving her and then her daughter would just be on her own again. I was like it's just it was hard for her kids is used to that. Yeah. Yeah. And all of it through like I know there's something wrong with her.

[01:56:17] Something happened to her and but unfortunately she's taking it out on everybody else also. I'm dealing with it at a point you can't feel bad for those people. No. Yes. Like there's something she's clearly mentally ill. She's sick. But also I think she I think she's an

[01:56:34] addict for for this. No, but go fuck yourself. We don't need any of you. And kind of I just want to go back to like what Dax said you know is like fuck you to that. Yeah. Attic to that monster right.

[01:56:46] It's just like you're just horrible horrible person. Yeah. No I whether it's popular opinion or not she can fucking die and burn for all you know fuck. Because like the world doesn't fucking need people. And there is. But yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. But like yes she's sick.

[01:57:03] Yes she's mentally ill. No I have no interest in helping her nor should anybody else go fuck yourself. Yeah. What she did to me and my family. Sounds bad but like you're not worth it. No. No. You just don't work if you're capable of that

[01:57:16] you're not worth it. Yeah. And she did a number on my family. And you and fucking everyone she's an interaction with everybody. Yeah. She's basically just a daughter. She's a she's a tornado rips through your heart and just leaves it a muck and it runs away.

[01:57:33] She doesn't deal with any of the problems so. All right. She's running away from her problems so figured I'd face them so I can actually move forward from them. For sure. Well holy shit. What an episode. Thank you so much.

[01:57:46] Yeah if there's any of you guys have any more questions I'm willing to come back on too if there's more to follow. When this is like wrapped up I really want to talk. Because there are we're going to have a chart. Yes.

[01:57:57] We're going to have a chart so we can kind of follow through everything. So one thing that you talked about the timeline earlier. Yeah. So with that when it all happened my poor brother and I'm really sorry Mike he went through all my text messages.

[01:58:10] He downloaded all my text messages on his laptop. That's a lot of work. And all from her and everything. He read every text message. All the dirty ones and everything. Thankfully he was smart enough not to download the he just downloaded the text version not the picture.

[01:58:25] Good man. Good man to see the pictures. Good man. Smart man. But we do have it and so that was part of what they were doing that first week was trying to lay out the timeline of what happened and how it happened. Yeah. Because we needed that too.

[01:58:42] We were trying to do that to get the protection order. But we just didn't have it all put together in time. So thankfully it all worked out now. But it's been a fucking nightmare of a road for us. You can't even, your family must be unbelievable people.

[01:58:58] Gigs up. And they must love you. They must love you. Don't stop feeling bad. Just love them back so hard. I know. That's the only thing I can do. That's the only way to thank them is just love them. Yeah.

[01:59:11] Thank you so much for being a part of this and like. Oh wow. Thanks for having me. I wanted to show the story. I really appreciate you reaching out and coming here and sharing everything. Yeah. It's an ongoing situation for me still.

[01:59:29] So it's something I'm actively working through. So there's still ups and downs. It sucks when not just men, just generally when people are taken advantage of. Yeah. Right? There's so many scumbag. Sorry. There's so many shitheads out there. Don't. I know. That's better.

[01:59:46] There's so many shitheads out there that take care of like or take an advantage of old people. Scamming on the phone and doing this shit. And it's just like I can't believe that we still have human beings that feed off of someone else's vulnerabilities. Vulnerability. Yeah, exactly.

[02:00:07] Like it's disgusting. There is a lot of evil people in this world. But also there's a ton of good ones. Yeah. And I thankfully had a lot of good ones on my side in this situation too. So that helped me through because if it hadn't been

[02:00:21] for Shelley, Mike, and Connie and my mom and Richard there, I don't know. That could have been a very different outcome for me. Well, and if you ever need, if you ever feeling down, you know, you can always reach out to us. Yeah. And the scumbags.

[02:00:34] Like they're assholes, but they're also very loving people. I'll say something mean to you if you ever want. And I don't. See that's the reason. I didn't tell the story in the Discord chat that we have because this was too much to lay out in the text.

[02:00:46] For sure. Yeah. For sure. But you can always reach out. And if you just need listening here, we're here. And again, thank you for joining us. Yeah. Thanks for having me, guys. Yeah, man. Thank you so much. It's just such a it's it's always

[02:01:04] so sad to see such shitty things happen to good people. Also like you made it through and it makes me so proud of you as a man. It makes me proud of you as someone I know.

[02:01:17] And like we love the best part of and I've said it a few times, but like the best part of doing this show is like. Everyone is sitting across from us telling their story. Yeah. So they're still here. Yeah. They got through. They fucking did it.

[02:01:31] They're still here. We had one. We had one. We had one story where we had a couple that are like suicide stories and life takings. And that's different. But like everyone who sat here and told us their struggle is here to sit and tell us. Yeah.

[02:01:43] And like it makes me so fucking honored to be sitting across from people because like the strength it takes to do that. And then never mind to come here and share that with all of us.

[02:01:53] Like I just I'm so grateful that you are willing to be a part of that because of that. We have a mug for you. Yeah. Awesome. Thanks. So one of our mugs and please enjoy it. Yes. Put it, you know, it fits coffee tea or whiskey.

[02:02:05] I saw it on your podcast. You're like, OK, well, you got one now. You got one. I appreciate it. Thanks guys. So thank you again for joining us here for all the listeners. Thank you very much for sticking around for these two episodes.

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