Email us at quietriotshow@gmail.com.
WANT TO HELP US? Click here. In this episode, we kick things off with a deep check-in, reflecting on the past year—where we were, where we are now, and what truly matters moving forward.
We also dive into our journey with the no-alcohol challenge and get Graeme’s perspective, given his experience working in the industry. He shares valuable insights on alcohol’s role in both personal and business life, offering a unique take on the conversation.
The heart of this episode, though, is all about fatherhood. Graeme opens up about the challenges he and his partner faced while trying to conceive, the emotional toll it took, and the hurdles they overcame together. We explore what being a dad means to us, how it has shaped us as men, and the personal growth that comes with parenthood.
This is a powerful conversation filled with reflection, honesty, and lessons learned. Tune in!
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Tommy
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[00:00:00] I just figured out what's going to work for me to set me up for success. I know that if I wake up before my family wakes up and I get a little bit of coffee in me and I have a little bit of quiet time, even if it's five minutes, ten minutes, I'm going to be so much better for my family. That's just the way it is. It's easy. A regular person that has a regular Joe job and still wants to be a good parent, excel in their career, be more whatever, grow in any area of goodness.
[00:00:28] I don't think anyone's trying to emphasize their negative aspects of their life. You're like, you know what sucked for me last year? I'm going to lean into that.
[00:00:58] Cheers, Tommy. Hey, enjoy your whiskey. I'm going to enjoy this hundred bucks. Fuck. Got to zoom in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There we go. Okay, that's bullshit though. Smells like victory. No, it smells like entrapment. You fucking trap me. Um, listen, it's all about willpower. Yeah, and I did the willpower thing. No, you don't have. I do. I have plenty. You gave up. I have lots. I'm very stubborn, which is a problem.
[00:01:25] When I decided it was time to drink again, I was stubborn about that. Oh yeah. Yeah. You were. So that's where we ended up and you trapped me. And I still need hundred bucks from RJ. So let's shout out to him. I'm going to tag him and I'll make sure that I'll keep bugging him. No, you fucking trap me. I want everyone to know that. So we went to the wrestling United. Do you want to introduce our guest first? Oh yeah. He's here. Graham's here. Hey, Graham. Graham, welcome here. Thanks for having me. First of all, thank you for making time to be here.
[00:01:54] Secondly, I've short backstory. I'm sure it'll come up throughout the episode, but like I've known Graham for a very long time. Yeah. Since like probably 16, 15, 16 years old. Yeah. We've known each other a really, really long time. So I'm super pumped to have you sitting in that seat and like, you've actually been on board and a supporter of our show, like right from the get go. Yeah. And so thank you. I love what you guys are doing. This is amazing. Happy to be here. I'm pumped.
[00:02:22] You're in that seat and you're going to be a great guest. So I'm excited about that too. Oh, geez. Well, you know how to talk to people. You know how to, you just, you know, microphones. Yeah, I think so. I feel like, I feel like that could be one of my better attributes, but also the thing that gets me into a lot of trouble. So we'll probably, we'll probably get into some of that. So I was trapped into drinking again and Tommy's going to make all kinds of faces. So I have my own story, but he can fuck himself.
[00:02:48] But so we went to the wrestling United event last, which was last Thursday based on today when we're recording. I don't know when this is coming out anyway. I don't pay attention to that stuff. Um, and so I was a kind, we went for drinks before and I had diet Pepsi's. It was fine. We were drinking. You guys were drinking. I was on my day six. He was using one of his 14 days or whatever he decided to take.
[00:03:15] Um, and I was drinking diet Pepsi's. I was kind and generous enough to drive the whole crew over to the wrestling event. Yeah. It was very nice of me to do that. I actually remind me, I have a story that I cannot share. I'm here, but like, uh, I gotta tell you. Okay. Um, so I drive the crew over this. There's no parking anywhere. And so I dropped them off at the door like a gentleman and my best friend I've never had. Yeah. Right.
[00:03:45] So I drop them off at the door and they all pile up and I'm like, I'll go find some parking somewhere. So I'm like cruising the streets. I'm trying to find fucking, there's no fucking parking. I had to park so far away. So now I'm frustrated. Across the street. No, it was far away compared comparatively to where all the other parking was each shit. I dropped you off at the fucking door and it was further away from the front door. Yeah. It was much further away for the record. Yeah. Hundreds of yards. So, and it's winter. It's cold.
[00:04:16] So I go, I parked. I parked. I wasn't at that point. So I go park the car. I come back. I get into the event. Sure. I walk into the event and the first thing he does is he has a beer in his hand. He puts it in my hand. No, no. That is exactly what you fucking did. That's entrapment. I reached out. That's entrapment. You grabbed it. Oh, wow. Fucking semantics. Technicality. That's bullshit. Yeah. That's entrapment. So I drank it and then I was like, fuck it. I'm done.
[00:04:46] That's enough. Yeah. I have a, I have a, I have a buddy who's super into the game Settlers of Catan and he, in his box, he's got a little like black book and he records every single win and loss. Oh man. And if there was any kind of foul play throughout the game, he would, he'll call it a hollow victory. So, so I think that, that $100 might be under the hollow victory category. Thank you. I think that's fair. Yeah. I think that's fair. It's questionable cause it is, I, I don't have all the information yet.
[00:05:16] I'm hoping to learn more, but it does sound like a win is a win. Maybe not your best wingman to get you through that night though. I think you're right. I chose poorly. No mercy. And listen, the reality is I own it. I took it. I drank it. I could have said no. I said no to drinks a million times in the last two and a half months. Yeah. I did. And so like, so close. I took it. I said, I'm doing this. I don't care. And I drank it. So that's on me. I'll own that.
[00:05:45] On the bright side. You're welcome. Cause you're drinking now. That's true. Yeah. Like you're drinking. It is nice. I have a whiskey in this. I'm not. I'm about to crack my zero sugar. Shirley temple. Oh, I've been so into diet and W root beers lately. Best. I've been. So my up until the other day when I started drinking again, that was my everything. And that was cause of you. Yeah. And they're so good. Yeah. They're. Oh dude.
[00:06:13] They're so, they taste, they don't, they just taste like root beer. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think. I think the best thing is I've never really been a pop guy. Like for the last bunch and bunch of years, the only time I drink pop is in a mixed drink. And so I don't, I'm not one of those guys that could tell you the difference between like Coke and like, I don't have those kinds of allegiances. Yeah. So then when you, you're like, I don't know, I'll try a diet soda, zero calories, you know, some hydration, tons of chemicals. Sounds like exactly what I should put in my body. Cancer. Yeah.
[00:06:43] You're like, this doesn't lead to anything negative. I don't need diabetes on top of that. Right. Exactly. I'm already, I'm already making enough hard choices every day. I'm like, but yeah, it's like you, then you, for me, I'm like, this is so nostalgic. This tastes like going to A&W because I'm not comparing it to, you know, the real deal, I guess, but it's actually pretty close though. Like the diet A&W root beers are the closest diet drink to like the regular one. And I can't drink zero drinks. They make me sick.
[00:07:13] Oh, okay. Which is like, that's weird in itself. But like, the funny thing is that like, I, like I, I don't care necessarily like whether it's zero or diet, but I do prefer to diet. I think diet drinks are better than the zero ones. And it seems like they're taking away more diet. They're all gone. They're creating like the zeros. So my options are really limited now because zero drinks actually make me throw up. Yeah. Like they're, they make me sick. And so I can't. So I went to the States the other week for my wife's medical stuff.
[00:07:41] I think we talked about that a little bit and I was like, yes, target. They're going to have all these sweet diet drinks. I wanted like diet A&W cream soda. I just wanted it so bad. Yeah. No. Yeah. It's all zero now. Yeah. Okay. And I can't do it. When we went to the States, you asked me to look for it. It's like, no, there is nothing. Three in Walmart. Yeah. I couldn't find it. Like all I get here now is like diet ginger ale and diet A&W root beer. And that's like diet Pepsi and diet Coke or Pepsi, but I don't really like those very much. But yeah.
[00:08:11] Is it just a different sweetener? It's something in it that doesn't. Yeah. There's something else in it that like makes me ill. Yeah. Interesting. So I just don't drink. I don't touch them. I know my wife and her family are very, they all get reactions to diet drinks. Like they notice it. It's almost like cilantro and something. If you don't like cilantro, like if there's a diet, they're just like, no, this is off putting to me. Um, but I know some people that actually physically get sick from it too.
[00:08:40] And I, from the, from the fake sugars, I guess I would assume. I mean, even the real sugar in the other ones is fake. The zeros have aspartame and then the diets is like the other. Diet's aspartame, but there's like a combo. No, no. There's a combo in the zero drinks. Yeah. Well, I mean, this is from the States. So there's all the dyes, the red 40 and all the, Oh red 40. That's the one you really want to lean into. Only for another two weeks. Is it till, uh, Trump gets elected?
[00:09:10] Then red 40 is out. Oh, okay. Anyways, we're not having that conversation. Yeah. That's we need, I don't have, I think I have that much hard drive on a space. So anyways, Graham, you're here. That's awesome. It was great. You, uh, why don't we check in? Oh yeah. It's a check in time. Let's do that. Cut me off like that. That's good. I like it.
[00:09:36] I am a, uh, uh, I would say six. Okay. Um, it's been really weird last couple of weeks. Um, just, I don't know. Like I've, I'm looking, I'm looking up a new therapist. Okay. Cause, uh, I want to, I want to get, get back to therapy. Yeah. It's just, I need, I feel like I, there's some shit that I need.
[00:10:03] I don't even know what it is, but I just need to unload and just kind of find, I guess, what's, what, what makes me tick. Cause, uh, it's been a lot of lazy days and like I have shit to do. So I just kind of go through that, bust my ass and then I crash hard and then I have zero energy. I know my diet's not the best. I know like, uh, sleep is fucking horrible. If I can't sleep for four hours, I'm happy.
[00:10:32] Like even on the weekends, like I, I can't fall asleep. And then, you know, I, I wake up and just, yeah. Is it your brain or is it your body? Like I think they're all connected. I think it's both. But like, but yeah, like main, so I do have some, some back issues. So I've been doing some stretches for my back, but, um, I've been sleeping on the couch mainly because, uh, so we got a new mattress and it's super comfortable, but I wake up with
[00:10:57] like the craziest like back pain and then I have to get up and like stretch and I'm fine. But like, it's just, it wakes me up, you know, with the back aches. And, uh, and that's, I know that's me mainly because my core is just completely shot and like, I need to exercise. Um, I just, yeah, I don't have to drive. I just basically, yeah, just, yeah, yeah. I feel stuck a little bit. So it does, it does feel like you've been stuck a little bit lately.
[00:11:25] And I think like there's a lot of things factoring into that. There was a lot of, a lot of shit that happened in the last few months. And, and so I'm, I'm letting, letting of that go as well. And, um, just kind of trying to figure out who I am basically. So good for you. That's a, that's a journey and it continues to go. And like you do it last year and then you do it again this year. It's super fun.
[00:11:50] You know, I've looked back with some, to some messages with some of my friends too, like a year ago, like what we talked about. Oh man, I didn't do anything I wanted to do. No, you've come a long way in that sense. No, no, no, no. As far as like, there's, there's certain things that was okay. I'm going to like personal. Oh, you didn't accomplish any. No, but you are different from a year ago. Oh yeah. I a hundred percent. But like I, the things I really wanted to do for my health. I didn't. Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah.
[00:12:19] And then I was like, okay, I need to do. Well get your fucking shit together. Do something about it. Knock it off. It's so easy. Right. Isn't that what we do? That's how we support each other. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, as an outsider looking in, obviously a fan of the podcast, like you said, we go back a long time, so I want to support you. And then just so happens that I'm pretty into talking and learning about men's mental health and that kind of stuff.
[00:12:45] But I would be interested to know, and obviously you don't need to share your list, but like was starting a men's mental health podcast on your list, like, you know, was like, like having this cool space, like being consistent with putting out good quality content. Right. Like, I don't know. I think that's something that we'll probably dig into as we move forward on this, on this podcast.
[00:13:09] But like, sometimes we, we don't take, give ourselves the, like the green check mark. Like, yeah, I did that on the stuff that we do day to day. And that's sometimes, sometimes you don't, you just don't, let me slow down here. I personally have a hard time except like being grateful in the moment. And when I look back to a year ago, to where I was one year ago.
[00:13:35] And as we mentioned before we got on the show, I was kind of in a place where maybe it sounded like you were like stuck and just feeling like, oh man, like what's going on here? What can I fix? What can I change? Right. And, and it is like January is one of those times you look back and you're like, you're like, man, I didn't feel like I accomplished much. But if you think about it from a different lens or a different area, maybe professionally or maybe with your family, like maybe, you know, I, like, I guarantee you can find the silver lining for on, on what you did accomplish.
[00:14:05] But it's also good to critique yourself. Cause if you're like, man, I really want to get fit or I want to drink less. So I'm sure we'll talk about that too. Or like eat better. Like, like, like it's so big. Right. Yeah. So, and it's hard to measure cause like I was thinking about it this morning. I was like, man, after Christmas and after all this stuff, it's like, I'm so out of whack. Like I, I, I would, I used to always consider myself not a structure person, but when I get
[00:14:32] out of structure, I realize how badly I, I need it or how well you function within it. Yeah. And I think, I think you make a great point. Like we are lists of things we want to accomplish or we want to be or, or whatever, wherever we're headed on our journey is like so big. Like I have all, I have my work things and that's like an endless list that keeps getting bigger. And then I have like my dad things and my husband things and my life things outside of that.
[00:15:00] Like we see these highlight reels always of these people we look up to and, and it's like, Oh, he's doing everything. It's like, no, fuck. He's not like nobody is. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think you make a good point of like a celebrating the winds, no matter where they come. Yeah. And we talked about being critical of yourself as well. Like I think I'm super critical of myself. Yeah. And so like, I get that I'm good at that part. I'm not good at like the winds.
[00:15:27] And like, I had this whole conversation with my wife the other day about like where I'm at in my career and there's been a lot of hurdles and headaches and like I've worked very, very hard and I've accomplished a lot of things. And like, I also forget all of those things every day. Yeah. And like, I don't let myself enjoy them. I don't. It's like, no, I'm not where I want to be. But like, I think there's a positive and a negative way to treat yourself. Yeah. And like, I tend to default towards treating myself negatively. Yeah.
[00:15:56] And like, do I find motivation in that? Not positive motivation, but I do. Yeah. But like, maybe I could find a better way to do that. Mm-hmm. And like, I think that's what you're going through is like, you've accomplished a lot. Oh, absolutely. Like, you're trying to build your graphic design business and you're doing great and you do great work and like you've, your skills have gotten better. You've learned so much. And like, you're a better dad this last 12 months than you have been the 12 months before that. Yeah. Like, you're a way better dad. And that is, that is one of my biggest accomplishments in this last year.
[00:16:23] I've bonded so much with my son this past year. Yeah. And I want to continue to do that. So again, this was. I see that. Like just, we're friends outside of this show and we spend time together. Our family spend time together. Like, I see that. Mm-hmm. You're a way better dad. And like, to me, that would actually be one of the most important things on your list. It is. And like, you have done an exceptional job of that in the last 12 months. It's, it's the personal thing that I, for myself that, you know, and I, I really, I
[00:16:50] strongly believe in if I don't take care of myself, then I'm going to fall back to where I was a few years ago. Right. And I don't want to get there. So. Yeah. But I think Graham makes a great point about that. It is. Yeah. We need to celebrate the. Find those like, and I'm paraphrasing what I'm summing up what you're saying, but like find the things that you did do. Yeah. Use those as positive reinforcement and use those as like a, like you earned those. You worked hard at them. Mm-hmm. And like, yeah. Did you do everything? No. Are we ever going to do everything? No. Fucking no. Yeah.
[00:17:20] Yeah. Progress, not perfection. Yeah. Yeah. What number are you? Today. Let's just go today. Okay. Or last week, whatever. Uh, I'm probably like a seven. Whiskey will do that to you. Yeah. He's back baby. Uh, I've just, I've actually been really productive in the last little bit. I feel really good about it. Um, my relationship with my wife has been like, I felt more connected to her.
[00:17:48] There were a few weeks before that where like we were just passing ships and we just couldn't find that notch to like, even though we had to be both, we both had to be super busy. We couldn't find that mesh to like still feel connected. Yeah. And like, you guys are both married. You know what that's like? Yeah. And like, I hate that. I hate that so much. And like, when Rachel and I aren't at least connected, which doesn't mean we're spending
[00:18:15] a pile of time together, but it means we're connected when we're not, it just like everything else sucks and everything else is harder. Everything's more frustrating. It's just defeating like all of that. Mm-hmm . And I, that's my foundation is my family and my home. And like. Well, when you say that you, when you're connected, like things click cause you might spend a little time together, but that, that time is like really good quality. It just matters so much. And it like, it accomplishes so much.
[00:18:44] It feels so, the volume of it is so much bigger than everything else. And so this last like week and a bit, we've really been that way. Even though we've both been super busy, we've been like passing ships. We've felt differently. Yeah. And like that just changes everything. It changes the tone in our home, changes the way my daughter behaves because like she sees that and she's so like. Kids feel it. They feel it and they may not make observation of it verbally, but like, you know, they feel it. Yeah.
[00:19:12] And like, that's been, the last week has felt like that. So it's been awesome. Uh, just a quick follow up cause a few episodes ago, you mentioned that your wife has been going through medical stuff and then you were, you said that you were feeling burnt out. So is that now kind of getting back to normal a little bit or do you still have that wearing off? No, her, she's on a path to recovery, like in a huge way. Her health is so much better. Her energy is so much better.
[00:19:40] Like you saw her at new year's like six months ago, seeing her at all would have been impossible. Yeah. And like that's changed and that's, that changes me. It changes my level of burnout. I don't have to do as much like we're sharing in the load. Yeah. We're sharing the load and that, that just makes such a difference because it's just, again, you're like connected and you're sharing it. And like, it does take both of us to make everything in our lives work.
[00:20:08] And even that seems overwhelming, but like, man, it just feels different. Yeah. Good. Thanks for asking though. I appreciate that. Graham. How sad are you? I'm doing, I'm in a pretty good place actually right now. I would say, I'd say, I guess for context, cause you guys kind of have your baselines too. I think that I usually hover around a seven and a half. Like I think that I'm usually like, I wake up in the morning and I've got energy and I'm
[00:20:34] excited for the day and I want to make my kids breakfast and dance parties in the morning. Like I, I have like, I feel like I've got a, I'm at a good point right now where I feel like I've got tons of purpose and that's something that I thrive off of is, is that. And whether it's, you know, being, being, being the calm in the storm when my wife's life is really busy with work. Like, and then also being the, like, being able to interject the, the fun a little bit more.
[00:21:00] Cause my, my wife's more, more analytical and like strict isn't the right word, but she, she, she, she, she's structured in that, in that sense where it's like, she worries about bedtimes. I don't worry about that stuff. And she worries about it because I don't worry about it. Right. Yeah. Like, but so, yeah. So it's like, she'll be focused on all those other things. And then I get to be the guy that comes in and like, let's have a dance party. Like my kids are super into Chumba Wamba tub thumping right now. Nice.
[00:21:30] So I'm just like, okay. Everyone should be at some point. Yeah. It's nice to see that's continuing. I still am kind of. Well, I made a deal to myself. It was like my, my oldest is almost seven and I'm like, yeah, it's awesome. And like driving her to daycare when she was like three, I was just like, oh my gosh, it's going to be like bluey songs and like all of the, like, you know, the like kid stuff. And I was like, I was like that, that can exist, but it doesn't need to be the only thing. So I was just like, I'm just going to start playing her music.
[00:22:00] And she's got this like unbelievable retention of lyrics, melody, like, like naturally more gifted at music than I ever would hope, hope to be. And when she started being like, dad, let's sing this duet together. We'd sing like Taylor Swift songs and I'd do the boy part. She'd do the girl parts. And there's some songs where it starts to get really weird when you're doing that with your like five year old daughter. You're just like, I don't like these lyrics very much anymore.
[00:22:27] But like, she likes her understanding of melody and that kind of stuff. So like, so yeah, like lots of really cool stuff. So yeah, we, we, we get into, we listen to actual music, not just the like, dun, dun, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, which every parent out there is about to drop kick because they know exactly what that, that is. Right. So, um, but yeah, I'd say I'm an eight out of 10. I have a bit of a, like, I've had a bit of a cloud over me the last like five days. And it's one of those things where it's like, I'm not sad. I'm not depressed.
[00:22:57] I know it's not, it's not anything big, but I just feel like I'm not like something. There's an itch that needs to be scratched or I need like, there's just something. And, uh, and yeah. So last time I felt this way, it was like, I don't know, sometime last week maybe. And I was just like, I don't feel myself. So I just put on all of my winter gear and I went for a walk around the block and I got like halfway through the park near our house and I could like feel my shoulders release. And I was like, oh, I just probably needed a little bit of fresh air. Right.
[00:23:26] Like it's usually not like, oh, I don't feel myself. I should probably reinvent everything. Like it's like, it's like, no, no, no. Like that dramatic. Yeah. Yeah. Which I think goes back to, uh, to talk to what Tommy said. Like I look at 2024 and there's so many things I didn't accomplish. It's like, you're, you're right. And same thing on my list. And I'm sure it's the same for everybody, but it's those moments where I'm just like,
[00:23:50] I look back to where I was a year ago, as far as burnt out and depressed and anxiety ridden and like, couldn't figure out, you know, like, well, like how did I even get here? Let alone, where do we go from here? And now I'm a year, a year further along in that journey. And I, and I think I just recognize the things in my body way earlier. So to like spin it positively for you, you're feeling a certain way right now.
[00:24:19] Maybe Tommy five years ago, this would be like, you're, you're just recognizing it more because you talk about it more. You're under, you understand yourself better. It could be as simple as you're not hydrated enough or you're not, your diet's not right. Or whatever, like those little things. Cause that's a hundred percent how I feel. We went, my wife and we took the family to Ontario. We've got my wife's family, all a bunch of her in-laws or my in-laws, her family, uh, from Southern Ontario.
[00:24:45] So we went there around the 15th, 16th of December and we did a bunch of the Christmas stuff there. And it was amazing. It's so great to see everybody, but that's, that's draining. Like it's cause, cause you're trying to catch up. You're trying to have meaningful conversations. Cause you see these people once last time we saw them was five years ago. Right? So, um, so I always have to build it into, for me, it's like the day I get back from a trip like that, I know I'm going to be useless. I know I need my own downtime. I need to recharge my battery.
[00:25:13] So yeah, I, uh, I definitely can empathize with the, uh, the burnt out and the, like things just aren't firing the way that they are. But do you have like a, like you said you went for a walk. Like, is, do you have a set of tools that you've been using for some time to deal with those moments or? Yeah. Yeah, I do. Uh, it's funny. Like it's so cheesy. It's also cheesy. Like everything in my life and my brain anyways feels like, you know, that old picture from
[00:25:41] offices where it's like a cat and it's like, just hang in there. Like those like motivational things. Yeah. They're awesome. Like you, you like you Google like men's mental health or anxiety or any of these things. And then your feed just gets filled with a lot of these things. Right. And there's lots of influencers that post these things. So like, but yeah, one of the things that I saw in, in this process was if you don't have time for a 10 minute walk, you need a 20 minute walk. Hmm. And, and I hate walking.
[00:26:09] Like, it's so like, it's like, to me, I'm just like, give me a hockey stick. Give me a ball. Give me like a reason to go do something. Like if it's like, Hey, can you carry this to the neighbor's house? It's like, yeah, that makes sense. I have, you know, but it has purpose. But to just like put my boots on and go for a walk around the, the neighborhood just awful. Yeah. It does. And like, but, but so, but so the other thing that I, that I kind of try to think about
[00:26:35] is the thing you want to do the least is probably the thing you need to do the most. So if you're thinking like, okay, I really should go to the gym. I don't want to go to the gym or I really want to do this or I really want whatever it is. It's like, Oh, like eat the frog, right? Do the thing that you want to do the least first so that you can accomplish it and move forward. Right. So, um, going for walks is one of those things. Like that's, that's high on my list. I don't do it nearly as much.
[00:27:02] I don't, I have a pretty stationary job and I work from home. So it's like, I don't get a ton of steps in naturally. So I have to force myself stuck in that. Yeah. Yeah. And, and then you like, and then, um, you know, through like, especially through COVID, like I'm used to working from home that, that part didn't change during COVID. Um, but everybody else was home and then everybody else changed and then things weren't open. So it was like, I used to have this, like, I'm going to go meet somebody for coffee on this day at this time.
[00:27:31] And you naturally have more socializing that would happen. And then when that kind of gets taken away from you because you can't socialize the same way anymore, you know, like, okay, well I got to shift gears. I got to get into a different type of like, you know, I'm a little bit more reclusive now. And then it's easy to, it's easy to stay that way. Cause staying home is way better than going for a walk. And I want to talk about that a little bit. We're just going to take a couple minutes and then we'll dig into that. Sounds good.
[00:28:04] Are you going all the way to the end? Oh yeah. Well, Friday I'm using my day. Oh yeah. You're at the Belgian club. Yeah. So I play sponge hockey and, um, every year because of our win winters are so crazy now that we get like one weekend where we can't play because the ice is actually melting. Right. So they usually, Oh, you want to talk about climate change? We have to make up, make up games on Fridays and then Friday nights at the Belgian club. There's karaoke night and the Belgian club sponsors our team.
[00:28:33] So we always go back after games, but so if it's on a Friday night evening, we play and then we go to the Belgian club and usually it ends up was coming home at like three or 4am in the morning. So using your like 17th day of drinking. 7th. Yeah. Whatever. I, I, I, I used 24 hours as one day. I like the 24 hour rule. And I used it smart. So if I started drinking, well, my very first day I started drinking at 9 PM, well no 10 PM. So then I could go till 10 PM the next day.
[00:29:03] That's fair. So I woke up in the afternoon. I'm like, Ooh, okay. You should have been a lawyer. That's a great. No, I couldn't be a lawyer. I would lose most of my cases. Except when it comes to drinking. No, but yeah, so I use them smart. So I, that's why I have one more day left. Yeah. I like that idea of how you guys did it where you had some of those flex days in there and something I said to Tim when we were just chatting about it beforehand was like the, it's hard enough to stick to something hard, right?
[00:29:33] Like the whole purpose of doing something like stopping alcohol for, yeah, dry January or you guys, you guys went for big air. You guys went for three months. A little too wild. Two and a half for me, but not quite. Yeah. Well, that's funny. Sidebar. The first time I did it, I did it in February and I walked into a local watering hole and they're like, could I get you something? And I was like, I'm just going to actually have a coffee. I'm meeting somebody and the bartender who I know quite well looked at me and he's just like, he's like, what are you doing? And I was like, ah, dry February. And he's like, shortest month of the year, eh?
[00:30:03] And I was like, didn't even occur to me, but I was just like, I was like, that's actually pretty good science. That's right. Yeah. Don't pick a leap here. Yeah. Even better. Yeah. Yeah. No, but I like, overall, I just love the fact that people are doing that because people stop, like, it makes it, it makes it easier to not have drinks when you're going to a place, right? Like you go in January and people are like, are you doing dry January? You're like, yeah, I am. It's like, okay, cool. And then you don't feel the same sort of social pressure.
[00:30:30] And I think that's a big part of, you know, alcohol consumption in general. Right. Like, it's like, we all like, I'm, I'm a person. I get it. It's like, I would for sure have a drink or two to like lower the inhibitions before going into an uncomfortable situation or, or like, you know, it's like, oh, there's going to be lots of people here. I don't know. Like, am I, you know, like those anxieties of social anxieties, it's like alcohol definitely helps that barrier to entry. Right. And, uh, when you start realizing, you're like, oh, it's going to look weird if I order something
[00:31:00] that isn't, uh, you know, my usual, or it isn't something with alcohol in it. Yeah. That's another set of anxiety. Yeah. And then now, like, now you look around and like, you, I, you probably can't find a restaurant that doesn't have a non-alcoholic beer on the menu or, or some non-alcoholic cocktails, like, especially, you know, like, especially if you go to like a good cocktail bar, they are more about putting out good stuff rather than like, they're not, you know, it's like,
[00:31:26] we're not going to scandals at 19 years old trying to get like, you know, it's like trying to, or like for me, it was the Pembe, like I've got 20 bucks. How fast can I drink these like two pitchers of beer so that I get drunk off of these 20 bucks. Right. Yeah. Exactly. Like it's now it's like, well, I want to enjoy it. Well, and I think that like, I think the numbers are showing it, but like the younger generations than us, like you and I are about the same age. Tommy's a little bit younger, but like they don't drink the way we do. No.
[00:31:55] Like they don't, alcohol is not the same thing for them that it is for us. Yeah. And I think people are adapting and bars and restaurants and, and the alcohol industry is adapting. And I don't know how much you want to talk about what you do for work, but like that's something you must be aware of. And like the people in your world are tracking and noticing. And like, I mean, even we see like cannabis beverages are a huge, like a majorly growing part of the industry.
[00:32:24] And it's like, yeah, kids aren't drinking kids. I say kids cause I'm old, but like 20 year olds, 20, whatever kids. They're not drinking alcohol the same way. No, they're not consuming alcohol the same way that we consume or consumed alcohol. But like they are still, they've still found their thing to soften the blow of all those same things we're talking about. Like, yeah, it's actually not any different. And is it healthier? I would say, I would actually say to some extent, yes.
[00:32:54] But like all comes with its own issues and its own whatever. Like you abuse anything, it's bad. Yeah. But like they're just doing the same thing with a different substance. Yeah. Like everybody wants to, like the history of humanity has been about like, eh, can we soften the blow with something a little bit? Like wine, like wine's been around forever. Beer's been around forever. Like life's tough. Like it's okay. Yeah. I just watched, I don't know what show or movie you watched with the wife, but it was
[00:33:24] like, uh, something in the back in the days. And it was just like, oh, you might want to inhale this. Cause I got to put these stitches on your giant gash, you know? And then so the guy was like, you know, and it was like an opioid or something. Right. But like that, that's what they used. And it was, things were natural. Now again, it helped in a short, you know, there's a purpose. But yeah, there was a purpose. Abuse is never. Well, and that's just like with anything, right? Like with alcohol too. Like we had this conversation before we started recording is that it's, it's, it's nice.
[00:33:52] Like when I've taken the four months off, it helped, helped me realize that I don't need to drink. I want to have a drink, right? Like right now I'm going to have a drink and I'm going to enjoy it. And since then. Right now you're going to? I'm not giving you the hundred bucks. Yeah, get that brown back out of that pocket. But yeah, it's, it's just, it's, it's now I can make that decision. Like, you know what? No, I don't need a drink. But like on days when I'm drinking, um, I can come home and had a shitty day. You know what?
[00:34:22] I'm going to sit down, tell the wife, just give me 20 minutes. You know, I'll have a stiff whiskey or whatever. Right. And I'm going to enjoy that. That's it. Like, yeah. So great. So Graham, you, like you work in the alcohol industry. You have for actually quite a long time. How many years has it been? Uh, in like since, since, I mean, since I was 18 and one way, shape, or form. Like you've been serving and you've been bartending and whatever. Yeah. But doing what I do now.
[00:34:47] So I'm, uh, I'm a purveyor of fine wines and spirits and beer. Um, yeah. So I won't, I, I don't need to talk about the company or anything like that. I don't want it. I don't want it. Yeah. Cause I, yeah. Yeah. My goal isn't to turn this into an alcohol commercial by any stretch, if anything, probably the opposite. No, no, no. Unless you want to sponsor this show. But I think I want to talk about, I want to talk about your experience through that because
[00:35:11] I know you've been through some significant life moments and changes and like you're in an industry and maybe let's get right to it, but like you're in an industry that socializing alcohol and you're on the sales side of your business and you've been, you have been more so previous maybe than now, but like that was also, I think partially a conscious decision and maybe I'm wrong.
[00:35:36] You can explain, you can correct me, but like that's, that's a hard thing when your whole career, you could view your whole career as like, I go out and drink with people and that's what makes me successful. Sure. Like I've been that, I've done that. Like when I was in my, when I had my previous business, like that was a big part of what made me good at what I did. Yeah. And I actually believe it was, how much was alcohol?
[00:36:02] Maybe not alcohol, but entertaining, social and alcohol just always gets tied into those things. So yeah, you did that and you did that. You're very good at what you do and you did that very successfully for a long time. And then you spoke earlier a little bit about like a shift and maybe, maybe COVID, I don't know if COVID itself, maybe COVID not COVID itself was not part of that, but like that time
[00:36:27] and that shift in people's behaviors and people's the social atmosphere and all those things like changed. I see, I've seen a change in you and not that we've been super tight for a bunch of years, but like I've seen a change in you from who you were before that to now. And I just wanted to, I wanted to talk about that a little bit because I actually, you and I have never really had that conversation in depth and I've always been curious. Yeah. Yeah. I know that's fair. Yeah.
[00:36:54] So the, so the role that I have in, with our organization is I, I, I basically sell beverage alcohol to the province of Manitoba. Yeah. And then from there we get it distributed into different retail outlets. Mostly again, this, I feel like no matter what I say, I'm going to like try to, it's going to sound like it's coming off political. I'm like, and then the government of Manitoba, they have retail stores and they sell and,
[00:37:23] and the government does this and then the government does that. Um, no, it's, uh, so yeah. So essentially just, uh, not bore anybody with the like pivot tables and spreadsheets and the numbers that I look at every day. We'll have a good pivot table though. Yeah. Let me tell you. But when I got into the industry, I was, I was clearly younger. Uh, and I wasn't married. I was still with like same partner for, since I was 18 years old. So we were, we were together, but we weren't married.
[00:37:51] So my life was a little bit different. It was easier to have later nights. It was easier to go out and host the party and do all those things, right? Like take people to the game and then take them out for drinks afterwards. You get to swipe the credit card and look like the, you know, the big wheel and whatever. There's a certain amount of glamor to it. And as a client, you know, anybody feels great when they're being taken care of. Exactly. And then, and, and then, so there's part of it where you're like, I have to do this because
[00:38:18] the client or the customer, the relationship depends on it. And then there's part of it where it's like, well, this is also fun. Like there's a reason that people go out and eat delicious food and drink delicious drinks and do stuff, right? Like it's fun. It feels good. Yeah. So for, so for a really long stretch of time, my social life revolved around that, right? And I was like, I'm a server and a bartender and played in a band or a couple of bands, right? And toured.
[00:38:48] And like, I spent the formative years of my... Oh, you guys were in... Yeah, we were in... Oh, okay. Yeah. We were in Labs of Medi together. Oh, okay. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Are you with me? Shout out. Because you should be. You should be. Yeah. But, but yeah. So it's like when, when I think it comes back to you and we talked about a little bit off air where it's like the, the routine of things and the habit of things.
[00:39:15] You, you finish your shift at the restaurant and you sit down, you have beers with your, your like fellow comrades. This is what you do. Yeah. You like, you just got through like our version of like combat and you sit down and you're like, we got slammed tonight. Appie's got killed, whatever happened. And then, and, and I always loved that because the first thing that I realized, uh, it was like, if I'm friends with the cooks and the cooks are friends with me, I am going to have a way better experience for my tables.
[00:39:46] So we, we like all got really tight, really quick. And, and it wasn't like, I wasn't diabolical. Like I should be friends with the cooks. So they do me favors. But it was like, I just became, I become friends with everybody. I think that that's sort of my personality. That's a bit of your natural instinct anyways. Yeah. And I think that I never, I always looked at the restaurant industry as like, I'm not going to make as much money in the back of the house. I'll make more money in the front of the house. So that's what I should do. And it's so funny because I've always had more of like a passion for the food side of things, I think.
[00:40:14] And that has, you know, like has opened up in my, when I stopped working in restaurants. But when I go to restaurants, I, I'm super curious about the ingredients they use in their drinks and this and that. And I know you guys, like you guys just had Blake on not too long ago and he's like a next, next level, like home. Oh man. He's unbelievable. He's not a home cook. He's a different, he's definitely a different level. Do you know about his new venture? No. I think I can announce it today actually. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah.
[00:40:44] I think so. Yeah. I'll check after, but we'll say it now. Say it now. He bought GJ Andrews. What? Yeah. Sick. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. It's so good. After that episode, I messaged you and I was like, I'm so curious. And I couldn't, I couldn't say anything at that point, but I think on the 20th, they, same day as Trump takes over just for, which we're not having a conversation about. Yeah.
[00:41:07] Um, but no, I, he, uh, he bought GJ Andrews, which I think for him, like nobody listening to this knows him, but you know, I'm a bit and I know him and you know, like it's the perfect fucking fit for him. I cannot think of a better place for him to be the owner. Man, I like honestly have goosebumps because it's not that often that it happens where somebody tells you that they're going to do something. And I, we can circle back to this and it'll be a story about RJ who, who we both know, but
[00:41:36] like that is perfect. Right. He's such a wine guy. He's such a food guy. Yeah. Like if I, you know, I've been in the industry for a long time, so I consider myself to be a bit of an expert when it comes to like wines and spirits and different, different, different drinks and he would be a guy that I would ask without a doubt for recommendations. So like, I mean, whatever, you know, whatever clout I have, which is not much maybe, but I don't know. You've been around a long time. Yeah.
[00:42:05] But, but, but, but I, I think that, Oh, that's, that's, that's wicked. That's really, that's really great. Congratulations, Blake. Super fucking exciting. Yeah. This is probably terrible, like podcasting right now. I'm just like, like, I'm like, I'm just like, but like, but no, like a Kleenex. Yeah. Whether this gets aired or it doesn't get aired, like it's, it's so cool. Like I, I, I've known Blake for a bunch of years, but super, super distant. Like, like I know him from events or I know him from the industry a bit.
[00:42:35] We don't know each other super, super well, not nearly as well as you guys. You and Blake know each other because you spend, you know, 18 holes walking the course together. You learn quite a bit about, about somebody. Right. Right. Yeah. But no, but what I do know of him, that couldn't be a better fit. And I wish him all the best. And if there's anything I can do to help him and support him, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to do that. That's good. Okay. Back to you. Yes.
[00:43:02] So we're, yeah, we're touching on like the social thing and I'll speak from my own experience and maybe that'll trigger something to talk about, but like I spent so many years feeling like, okay, I'm good at entertaining. There is an importance to this. It does change my business. It affects, which in, in turn affects my life at home, my life in a, like it changes everything.
[00:43:28] I make my money from so much of it being how good I am at entertaining people and doing this and that. And like, then for me it became this thing where like, well, if I don't do it, who the fuck am I? Like, if I don't do this thing, am I good at this? Am I like, what is this? And I, I just, they got so blurred that it's like, well, if I don't go out and get wasted
[00:43:53] with people, like what value am I like, am I, are they going to care about buying my thing or being a part of my program or whatever that is? And like, I got those lines very blurred and they're also very, very easily blurred lines. Right. Because I think there is an importance and there's a line, but like, man, after 10 PM that line's hard to find. Yeah. So you're married or you're, you're with your wife.
[00:44:23] It's a, I've been with a couple of, I've had a couple of girlfriends while I've been in that world. And now I have a wife and like, again, I'm kind of in that, like, it's the sales marketing thing. It's the relationship thing. And like nobody who hasn't done it really gets it. Yeah. But also am I just blowing it up because it's fun to go out and party and eat fancy food with people? Probably both. She challenged, my wife challenges me on every, actually every partner I've had while I've been in that world has challenged me on that.
[00:44:53] Yeah. Well, you get to go here and do this thing and it's like, yeah, but I have to be on, I have to, like, I'm working, I have to be on. Yeah. Which means like, it is fun for sure. It's fun. And like, I'm not denying that. Also, like I got really good at being just a little bit less drunk than most of the people at the table. And like, that's a strategy. And like, it, I don't know, like that's, I feel like so much of that is the same as you. Like, I've always felt like we've had that aligned with each other where like, you were
[00:45:22] actually in the industry of the things being consumed, but like, it's the same thing. Yeah. Well, it's, yeah, it's funny. It's like lots of expense accounts. It's like, oh yeah, you can put everything on this tab, but you got to put all the alcohol on the other tab. And my role is the exact opposite. It's like the more alcohol and the less food and the less of the other stuff, like, you know, it's like, that's how it always was. And I think that especially if you're the one that's, you know, trying, you're trying to
[00:45:50] create an experience, you're trying to create something that matters and not necessarily because you're like, oh, I know I'm going to hit this guy up for an ask at the end of the night or whatever. That goes away pretty quick. Yeah. When you get more refined in what, like when you just get more natural about what you do. Yeah. To me, it was always, uh, an excuse to be more like vulnerable with people.
[00:46:16] Like getting, getting together in that setting is very different than sitting in like a presentation pitch or, you know, it's like whatever it might be. Here's my product. It's, it's also totally different. It's all so cheesy. Like it really, like no matter how you do it, it just is. It is. Yeah. Right. And it doesn't matter if you sell, sell cool stuff. Like I consider the industry that I work in unbelievably cool.
[00:46:42] Like we sell premium spirits and high-end beer and really nice wines. Like they're really easy things to talk about just in general. Right. You know, it's like, I'm an easy guy to talk to at a cocktail party because you know, we're off air and Tommy's asking me questions about whiskey. Right. Like it's, it's a pretty cool commonality and I get to be a little bit of an authority on the subject. Yeah. And, and I can appreciate that and I love it.
[00:47:09] And I, and I guess trying to tie this all back together to like, you know, healthy, healthier living and not, you know, doing like a sober January or sober, sober October, whatever you want to call it. Did I find it challenging to do, to transition from where I was to where I am now? Uh, I didn't, but that was again, one of the things we mentioned or want to talk about was COVID affecting that too. It was like COVID hit and nobody was doing that. Yeah.
[00:47:37] So it's, it's start, it started to make everybody reevaluate things. Cause then all of a sudden, if it's like, if my whole personality was built up around the fact that I'm a fun guy in the room and I'm going to buy the shots and I'm going to tell you funny stories and quote like 19 Kevin Costner movies for no reason for my own benefit, not for anybody else. There's always a reason. Yeah. Fine. But you know, it's like, you get it into your, like, you get it into your head that like,
[00:48:06] this is, this is your persona or this is a value I bring to people. Yeah. And it's, and it, and then it, it did, it has, and it continues to cross my mind that if I'm going to be the guy that it's like, Hey, we're going to go out, we're going to do all this stuff and this is what's going to happen. I'm going to be buying the drinks. And then if I'm not having the drink, that also feels weird in a different way because now I'm, I'm like, Hey, why don't you guys all have this? But I'm not going to drink my own stuff. I'm good. Thanks.
[00:48:35] So, so it's a delicate balance. Like you, so, you know, it's like something that I've always been like a hundred percent on is Ubers, cabs. Like, so if I'm going to a work event, if I know that I'm going to sample one thing, I'm not driving because I want to put my, because I feel like I have a higher responsibility than everybody else. So I think, I think that the perception could be for like, you know, and I'll like dumb it
[00:49:01] down to, you know, it's like, I'm a booze rep, like a liquor salesman. Right. Like it's, it can easily be looked at as like, you just go out to the bars, you party, you buy drinks and your job is done. And it's like, that is like negative a percentage of what my job is. Did I take advantage of it when I was younger and it was a little bit easier and I didn't need to wake up early because my kids needed to like eat breakfast and get to school and stuff. Sure. Yeah. I had some, I had some late nights over the years, but at the end of the day, I'm not good
[00:49:30] at what I do because I have a higher alcohol or a higher alcohol tolerance than other people. I'm good at what I do because I'm a genuine person. I'm empathetic and people gravitate to me. And I think that the hardest thing for me to realize was, am I that person without having a couple of drinks to loosen me up? Am I going to be like, you know, uptight and to myself.
[00:49:55] And what I've realized is whether I have a cocktail or I don't have a cocktail, I'm still me. Like one's going to accentuate elements of your personality and, and sometimes it's good and sometimes it's not good. And what I've realized too is like, it's not always good. It doesn't always service me. Yeah. And in my head, it was always like, have a couple of drinks, go do this, it's going to be great. And now I'm looking at it and I'm just like, but I know that if I do that, my guard will
[00:50:23] be down and I, you know, you know, you don't, you don't want to say the wrong thing. You don't want to like whatever. And then you just get to a point where you're older and I'd way rather be the best dad I can possibly be from like 5am till 8am before the kids leave for school every morning. Like that, that became the most important timeline of my day because I can help set the tone for the day for everyone in my family.
[00:50:51] So it was sort of like I switched my thought process from, or I try to maintain the thought process of being the thermostat, not the thermometer. Like I want to dictate the temperature and I, and the temperature I want to dictate is usually the right one. And it doesn't always, it's not always the case. Sometimes you're, sometimes you walk into a room and you start talking about American politics. Like, but, but, but like callback. Yeah.
[00:51:21] But like COVID or no COVID, we went through a lot of stuff over the last bunch of years. Right. And I feel like this isn't new news, but like the world is very divisive and I don't want to, I don't want to fuel any of the negativity part of that. But, and I totally know during COVID I'm like, you know, it's 9 30 PM. The kids have been asleep. I'm three whiskeys in and I'm looking at posts and I'm just like trucker rally to Ottawa. Like I need to weigh in on this. Everyone needs to hear what I have to say. Yeah.
[00:51:51] And like, and like you fast forward a couple of years and you realize you're just, it's like scroll past. Like I think that, and again, I can only speak for myself, but like when you use social media as your news source, which a lot of us do, you, you also have this opportunity to engage. And when you do choose to engage, like, is it for the right reasons or the wrong reasons?
[00:52:18] And what I've realized is always the wrong reasons. I just, I just, I've never seen a positive outcome. No. My favorite one's always like, did you see this post? Like, yeah, that's from five years ago, buddy. Yeah. And they believe, fully believe that that's happening right now. Yeah. People appreciate the fact that you're genuine and authentic. Just be yourself. Like I complimented Justin Lamuda from Rainy Day Forge. He put his YouTube video out and I've seen every other video he's done, but this one was different and I reached out to him.
[00:52:48] And then when he answered, he said that he was just being himself. Guys, listen up. You know what makes life better? Great knives. But not just any knives. Custom knives. Need a knife that'll handle your outdoor adventures? Or a kitchen knife sharp enough to make you feel like a pro? Check out Rainy Day Forge. Crafted right here in Winnipeg. Get yours today at rainydayforge.ca. It's captivating. Why? Because he's being himself.
[00:53:17] There we go. From their humble roots in kitchens and music venues all over Winnipeg, the creators of Intergalactic Sauces have turned their passion project into a line of must-have condiments for flavor and heat lovers everywhere. Getting their start selling tacos to hungry concertgoers at local underground music festivals, the Intergalactic crew has stayed true to its DIY rock and roll aesthetic. Every delicious bottle is a carefully designed collaboration with indie designers, printers, and a bit of inspiration from the cosmos.
[00:53:47] Whether it's a limited run or one of Intergalactic's core flavors, whether you want to add a bit of zip to a meal or blow your head off with heat, there's a sauce for everyone. Go to intergalacticsauces.com and get your sauce today. So I want to rewind just a tiny bit. So I actually want to go back to before, if you're okay with it, I'd like to talk about
[00:54:14] your, uh, the process of like you, cause your first child was born before COVID. Correct. So I want to talk about you being a dad. Yeah. Okay. I know that's been a long, arduous journey or it was a long, arduous journey up until that point. And so I'd actually like to talk about that a little bit. So, um, that changed you in a huge way. I think that was the biggest life change I've seen you go through. Yeah. Uh, nevermind COVID.
[00:54:40] Like we can, we can go from there forward, but like, I actually want to talk about the process of you becoming a father because I think that changed you in a huge way. Oh yeah. A hundred percent. If you're willing to share, like. I'm an open book man. Yeah. Let's talk about it. And so I'll just preface with a very minor amount of knowledge, which is you and your wife had a, had a very difficult time, uh, conceiving, like having a child. Yeah. And so I'd like to talk about that, like what that experience was for you.
[00:55:10] And I'm sure we have other listeners that like are having that hard time. Like I didn't realize until later in life, like how hard it was for people to get fucking pregnant. Yeah. And maybe it's cause I grew up in a Mennonite church and they were just like, if you have sex once you're going to have, you get pregnant and it's like, no people try for fucking years. And like my, my younger brother, like it took them a very long time. And like, I, I learned a lot through getting a little bit older and like your story, like when my brother had a hard time, I already knew your story a little bit.
[00:55:39] And so like, I was just like, yeah, this is just the thing that happens to people. So I don't want to say anymore. Like, I'd love for you to share some of that because I know we probably have listeners that are having a difficult time with that. For sure. Yeah. So maybe if you want to touch on your experience through that. Yeah. A hundred percent. And you know what? And, and it does tie into everything about me. Okay. So let's go back. Okay. So my oldest is, she turned seven in March. So I've got a six, almost seven year old daughter now.
[00:56:09] My wife and I started trying to grow our family. I would say six years prior to success. At minimum, it was, it was a, it was a pretty long journey. And, and yeah, we, so we were just like, okay, I guess we're like, we're at that point now in our marriage. We want to grow the family. So, you know, you do all of the, uh, you take away all the precautionary things and you're like, okay, this is what we're going to do.
[00:56:38] And we just weren't having any success. It just wasn't working. So got to a point where we're like, okay, well let's, we might need, let, let's go see somebody or whatever. So then we went to, uh, to a, uh, to a fertility clinic and they started doing the research and doing all the testing, which I can, I'm vulnerable. I'm open. I'm here for a reason, but yeah. Masturbating in a clinical, like shanty kind of room when you can hear people talking outside. That's gotta be a little tough. Yeah.
[00:57:08] It's not the move. It's not, it's right. That's probably not like a hashtag or like a key, a keyed in like scenario that people dream up in their fantasies. But also knowing that what I was, what I had to go through was a little bit embarrassing, a little bit, whatever, but I'm willing to talk about it. So it couldn't have been that bad. But what, what the men go through is far less than the invasive part of it, what women have to go through. So, so yeah, our journey through that went, we went through fertility.
[00:57:37] So it was, well, it was a lot and it was a lot of years and it was a lot of like bad results, like, or no results. Like, yeah, this didn't work. This isn't going to work. You guys are probably not going to be able to have a family. Basically science basically told us like you, you aren't having, you're not having a family this way. How did that affect your, like what was, I mean, you can only assume that strenuous on a relationship
[00:58:03] when was the common goal of we're getting this done. Obviously it kept, it brought you guys together. You found a way to do that. But like, what was that process like? Yeah. I'm sure there was a lot of tears and a lot of hard conversations and a lot of that. Yeah. I think, I think the hardest part was it took me a while afterwards to kind of mourn all
[00:58:28] of the hard parts of it because I, because it wasn't like our situation, like I, it wasn't because of me, like it was whatever, like, and I'm not saying that cause I feel like I need to, whatever. Whatever. I, I knew that, I knew that I wasn't the reason that we weren't getting pregnant. My wife was born with a certain situation that led it, it made it very challenging for us.
[00:58:56] And I think that she has, she had always wanted a family and she had always wanted kids far more than I ever knew that I wanted kids. And it always feels weird now because now I have two daughters and I would like lay down in traffic for them in a heartbeat, obviously. But I think, I think we don't, as men, we don't get that same, like our bodies don't tell us the same thing. Right. We're not, we're not programmed that way. Yeah.
[00:59:21] Not for the nurturing long, like we want to have sex and we want to procreate. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. But like, we don't look at it like, oh, I want to grow a family, have that. I don't, I don't think we have that nesting, nurturing, like our bodies don't tell us that. Yeah. Until a point. I think it happens at a point. I think our, when it happens, once you see that your first kid, you know, or. Well, you guys would know, I wouldn't know actually, but like. But you. The same way. Sorry, the same way I wouldn't. Yeah.
[00:59:49] But you've learned to love your daughter the same way as we love our kids. Oh yeah. I'd lay down in traffic. Yeah. Seven days a week. Yeah. Anytime. It's just, I think it's that protective instinct that is activated. But it's a thing that exists. Yeah. It's like a protective instinct over a thing that exists. Yeah. Yeah. No different than you'd protect your wife. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. But I would use my wife as a shield to protect my kid. That, see, I've heard comedians say things to that extent too. Yeah. Like, oh, I'd throw her in front of a bus if it meant I could save my kids. A hundred percent.
[01:00:19] Oh yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, I would try to throw myself first and then. Sure. But like. If that didn't work. If that was the only option, like my kids and the, or the wife, the wife goes for sure. Yeah. Sorry. I didn't. So I didn't want to. So your wife had a, she was the, I don't want to say the reason, but it was, it was her, it was, it was her body that was rejecting things and you were fine. Sorry. Yeah. Okay. I want to chime in because like we went through a similar thing where for us, it didn't take
[01:00:48] years necessarily. But the first one, it took us eight months, but with our, with our son, it took us two and a half years. Yeah. And same thing, it was the, the, the trying and everything. So we, like for us, what was that her ovulation window was such, so short that we couldn't time it then. But then what happened on top of that is adding stress on me to perform, it actually lowered the sperm count a little bit.
[01:01:16] That it was just like, like it was just because I was stressed out, I wasn't performing as well. And it was just kind of things on top of each other. Right. And it's less spontaneous. It's more of a job. Yeah. We have, we have to do this because like temperatures or now. Yeah. And, and, and that like, yeah, I guess the whole purpose of podcasts like this is to talk about the weird, uncomfortable stuff about that side of things, especially from the male perspective.
[01:01:43] So I, I, there's part of me that's just like, Oh, I want to like, I don't want it to sound like chauvinistic. That's why we're here. Yeah. But, but at the, at the end of the day, it's like that, that like in my life, I'm like, I don't know.
[01:02:08] I mean, it's like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
[01:02:38] I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
[01:03:08] I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. We don't know.
[01:03:37] over time. You guys were together long before you decided to have children. So there was a very stable foundation underneath you. Yeah, I guess the first takeaway from big broad strokes is having kids doesn't make things easier. And the process of trying to have kids
[01:04:02] should be very enjoyable, but it doesn't always necessarily make things easier. So the one thing that I will always be very, very proud of is our communication has always been really, really solid. We've been together since... I remember being in Toronto when I turned 19, and it was the first time that I could have a legal drink in Ontario. And we were starting our
[01:04:31] relationship at that point. So I'm 43 now, and we started dating when we were 19. So we've been together for a long time. So in that time, we learned a lot about communication, good, bad, how to... all of it, right? We learned each other. So then going through the infertility stuff was really, really challenging because... And again, I'm not saying it's like I had nothing to do with it.
[01:05:00] It's not that. It's that if it was my body that was not able to produce children for my relationship, I don't think that that would have been the end of my relationship by any stretch, but it would have been a different version of me in the relationship. Because then we would have had
[01:05:21] to talk about sperm donors or adoption, which we did. We went down all of these things. And we got to a point where we had to be comfortable with what we were going to do with each other, right? So for me, I was thinking... I got to the point where I was like, I don't need kids. My life is amazing. I love being married. I love being married to this woman. She is the best thing that's ever happened to
[01:05:48] me. I will do absolutely anything. And if it means those... What camera should I look at? I don't know. If it means doing those awkward things in a weird cubicle, then I'm going to do it, right? Because that was something that we wanted to do as a couple was grow our family. But the best thing for me was all I could do was show up every day and do what I could do every single day and support her every
[01:06:18] single day that I could in that journey. And I think that the hard part with that is you don't put your own feelings first. And it's a really, really looking back at it now, years later, it's a really, really great way of learning how to be a parent because your feelings can never come first. They just don't matter. It's not that they don't matter. That's the wrong way to say it, but they don't come first. They don't come first.
[01:06:46] And nor should they. It's not the place for it. Yeah. Why we do this. Yeah, exactly. And Tommy said it best. And not to make this political, but there is like... Not political at all. I'm just... I'm like, but there is... No. No, but it was something that made me think about it. And I'm not trying to diminish at all and cut this if this comes across wrong. I do not want it to come across wrong. But there's that...
[01:07:15] There was this survey or whatever it was that came out saying that if a woman was going to be trapped in the woods with a bear or be trapped in the woods with a strange man... Yeah, I've heard this one. They would rather be trapped in the woods with a bear. Yeah. And that's eye-opening, right? Yeah. Like as a male, I look at that and I think, holy crap, like how many times have I made women
[01:07:40] uncomfortable just by being in the room or just by, you know, like all those little things? Because I'm not the guy that's going to do something, but I also know me and I know that and my family knows that and my friends know that. But like the stranger walking down the street when I'm going for a walk when maybe the streetlights aren't on or whatever yet, like the person walking up to me might not feel that way. So it's a really cool thing to hear in the sense
[01:08:09] that, oh my God, I need to do better at making sure that I'm not like, you know, intimidating or scary or adding to that because I have sisters, I have a mom, I have a wife, I have daughters. Like, and that's not the only reason, like I've, I think I've just live, live a life where I want to make the women around me or people like people around me in general. Well, I think you like, you want to be a, I think, I think you strive towards being a
[01:08:38] good man. And so like, I've known you a very long time and like, you've always strived towards being a good man, like a kind person. We've had some ridiculous stories we're not going to tell on the show, but like, but none of them have led to disrespect. None of them are disrespectful. They're ridiculous. They're idiotic. They're, those are all fine things that we as men do and we should do. And like, we have it in us and we have fun doing it.
[01:09:06] But like, you've always been a very respectful, very well-mannered, very like, and you've been with your wife for 23 years. Like that's a long time. And like, she's a good woman. Like I've met her a ton of times. She's the best. She's a lovely lady. And so like, and I think as you've earned that and like, you've tried hard to be a good man. And every, every man should be right. Like there's, there's so many pieces of shits out there that make, unfortunately
[01:09:36] make women feel uncomfortable. And then now we all have to be careful. That's not like I have a son and a daughter, but I know I have to have that talk with my son that once a girl says no, it means fucking no. Like I was raised, you know, uh, by old school people, but it was the manners were there. Like you let older people in, you open the door for women, you know, like just that, that respect and being, being just a good human being. Right.
[01:10:01] But I think I would like, that's, that is a conversation that I'm, Oh, I, I already started having a conversation with my son and I'm going to continue to do that when he, once it comes to girls, because it's just like, yeah, you gotta be extra careful. I have a daughter and fucking, I hate it. Yeah. Like I love, I love it so much, but like, fuck. It's like my coworker told me, he's like, I have four sons. I have to worry about four penises. You have to worry about all of them. True. But at least I have a daughter in today's age instead of like when
[01:10:31] I was 13. Yeah. Like, yeah. Well, you watched Anchorman, right? It's like, yeah, but that's how it was back then. Right. Like there was a lot of disrespect and all that. And we all made it through it and everybody's okay. Well, I don't know about that, but like we're all here. But again, yeah, we try, we try to, as men, we try to be better. So you guys got protected. So eventually you did get pregnant. You have kids. And so. Congratulations.
[01:10:57] So, so yeah. Was it, was it the same way for you as us? Because once we actually stopped giving shit about trying, it actually happened. Yep. Is that what happened? Yep. And I, and that's why I always say like that stress of like hearing other people, oh yeah, we got, we weren't even planning and we just got pregnant. Like, fuck you, man. You know, like here we are scared. Like my wife was literally coming home for a booty call cause I was working
[01:11:23] evenings. Tell me more. It was fantastic. No, but like she was working during the day and then she worked till four 30. I started my shift at three till 1130. So by the time I got home, she was asleep. So, I mean, we called it the perfect relationship cause like we didn't see each other during the week. So weekends were extra special, but like, it's like, okay. Okay. Are you awake yet? Cause I'm coming home. I'm like, okay, I'll be waiting. And it's like, okay, we got to do this now because then she has to go back cause she's
[01:11:51] going to meeting. And then like the stress is like, fuck it. You know, I told her, I was like, you know what? That's it. We're going to stop trying. Let's just look into adoption. And like, as we started doing the process, it just happened. Well, it's when you like, when you put, cause you do, you put so much more pressure on yourself because it's this, this is the time or the temperature or the time, like, you know, for like whatever, like there's all, there's all these things where it's just like, this
[01:12:17] is your most opt opportune time. So like perform, it has to happen right now. And this is how, and yeah. And it's, and, and like, there's probably a ton of people out there that are just like boo hoo guys. They came home for a quickie and it was whatever, but it's, but, but the hard part of it from the guy's perspective is you want, you, you want to make everybody better around you or at least like that's the, that's the general understanding
[01:12:46] that I get from your podcast as we aren't going on this journey of like bettering ourselves or men's mental health or whatever it might be because for selfish reasons, we're doing it because like, I want to be a better dad. I want to be a better partner. I want to be a better friend. I want to be more available. I want to be like, I want to be on, I want to be on early in the morning. So like, do I still drink a cocktail from time to time?
[01:13:12] Yeah, absolutely. Do I do, do that nearly as frequently or at the same rate that I did like five, six, seven, eight years ago before my kids were born? Absolutely not. Do I still want to a lot of days? Yeah, for sure. Because there is something nice about shutting your brain off in such a like gross way. Like, but, but like, but I think everyone can relate to that
[01:13:38] where it's just like, whether it's like, fuck, I can't stop the work swirls or I can't stop this or I can't stop that. Or like life is just hard. Like it just is. Right. And to just be like, you know what you should do, go for a 20 minute walk instead of a 10 minute walk it's terrible advice. Or, or if you're struggling with having a baby and like your friends or people that just are within earshot, they'll give you the advice where it's like, you know what? Once you quit trying, that's when it's going to work. It's the last fucking thing you
[01:14:07] need to hear. It's honestly, yeah. And you probably heard it. Like, so, so I want to ask about that. Like you, so you're trying, you're trying, you've had, you tried for years and you watched your friends get married. You watched your friends have children build families while you're still trying to do this thing. And like that resentment, like there, there, there must be a stage where you have to face this resentment towards people you love and care
[01:14:36] about just because like, you want them to be happy, but you must, you must've hit that wall. I would assume multiple times where you had to address it and probably your wife too. And like, Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. And I think it's way harder. It's way harder. Oh, it's for women. For women. Unbelievably. Like I will never even claim to have a glimpse into what that's like. Yeah. And we're here to talk about what it's like for us. And like, yeah, I know that women have the harder time with that. There is no
[01:15:01] question. Well, and like for you, what was that like? Well, I think, I think seven years ago before we had kids, if people were to ask, I probably my natural reaction, the version of me now, if I were to go down, go back seven years would just be like, Oh no, I like, I can't have kids. Like I would, I would be like point, I would shine the light on me so that it would, yeah. Right. And, and so those were the things when I, when I mentioned earlier,
[01:15:30] like I didn't really like mourn the process. Like I didn't realize what I was maybe not sacrificing. Like it all sounds so grandiose, but like, but like going through that, my role was to be the rock. Like to be the salt, the salt. Yeah. To like, be like, it didn't happen this time, but maybe next time we have more options. We were just at the beginning of this. We can have kids, whatever, right. You know, like all of those things. Um, but again, coming
[01:16:00] from the perspective of the guy who doesn't have a clicking talk, uh, clicking, a ticking clock, there we go. I got there. Um, a ticking clock the same way doesn't, isn't the one who's like, was born with a set like, and I'll ask my wife if we can share this, but like a unicorn, I think that's the right way to pronounce it. Unicorn, a unicorn ate uterus, which is essentially
[01:16:27] half a uterus. So, so she could only be fertile 50% of the time because that's just the way that it works. So it's like, so I think part of me was just like knowing in my heart that I was never going to leave this relationship because we wouldn't ever have kids. Like my goal was my relationship with my wife is the most important thing and I want to have a family,
[01:16:56] but I don't want to have a family at the cost of anything else. So that's when we got to the point where finally I just put my foot down and I said, listen, like doing all this, like, uh, like in vitro stuff and doing all of this fertility stuff, you're injecting hormones into your body. You're doing all of this stuff. Like, I was just like, let's just take the summer off. Like, let's just relax. Let's not worry about this. Let's go for runs. Let's be outside. Let's have
[01:17:24] margaritas. Let's just like, give your mind and body a break. Yeah. Like, let's just be kids again. Like, let's just like, you know, like have sex because it's fun, not because it's a science experiment in some ways. And I, and I like, I'm dumbing it down and making a bit of a joke about it because it's easier for me to digest it that way. We do that endlessly as you've heard. Yeah. But, but, but yeah, we just like, we just got back to the, like to us and us as a relationship
[01:17:52] and us as a couple and us as partners and then you got pregnant and then, yeah. And everything else was like suit, like a big surprise. Like, so through that summer we ended up selling a condo. It didn't sell. The housing market was absolutely atrocious. We had bought a house. We had in that journey, we were like, well, we've been saving a house since we could buy a kid. So we have this down payment, but we aren't having a family. Maybe we should do something else. So we bought
[01:18:18] a cottage in that time, like nothing lavish, but like a getaway. Right. And so we, I was like, man, we're like, we're building a beautiful dream life here. We aren't checking the specific box of kids or whatever, but we are doing all these other things. And like, I love my kids more than anything. And like you said, like I'd throw my wife in front of it. If it means like, well, and like, and because she would agree with me, it's like the handshake deal is like when
[01:18:47] you have kids, it's like, if it's between them and you, like you sacrifice yourself. It's bigger than us. Yeah. So, so yeah, it's like, I would absolutely like, I wouldn't like at this point, it's like how much I love my kids. Like I wouldn't only sacrifice me, but I would sacrifice my wife as well. Right. And I want, I don't want that to come off as like whatever, however it comes off. It is what it is. Don't worry about it. But the person that I would lay down my life for, I would now lay her life down for, for these two little
[01:19:17] kids. Right. So what in your life? Like, so, okay. So she got pregnant and you had a baby. Everything was happy. Your kids are happy and healthy, which is amazing. Yeah. Talk about fatherhood for you. What did that change for you? Uh, it was awesome. Like I, I have two girls and I don't have any brothers. I only have older sisters. My wife only has a sister. So when we were pregnant, it was like, sure. There's a part of
[01:19:44] you as a guy that's like, Oh, I wonder what it'd be like to have a son. Like, what would I, you know, like I'll dress them like me or whatever, like whatever fantasies you have. And then as soon as like, as soon as Finley was born and I had a girl, I was just like, Oh my God, this is my new best friend. Like it's like immediate, right. It's just like everything changes and you can't, you know, it's, you know, it's just, it's, it's impossible to articulate properly, but like you just realize
[01:20:12] that your purpose is different. And I think that was like, so that would have been seven years ago, almost seven years ago. And then me now, and somewhere around like two or three years ago, there was like this other monumental shift in my life where I was just like wanting to like really live for my family and really be present for my family. Cause in that time, so it was like,
[01:20:39] so Finley was born in, uh, 2000. Oh my God, cut this out. 2018, 2019. I feel like your wife's going to listen to this. So just let him know when he'll edit it. Yeah, confirm and I'll cut it. Well, I'm just, well, she had her, she had her first birthday during COVID and I'm trying to, so it would have been 2019. She was born first. And then 2020 was her first birthday. See, we got it. We did it as a group. We got there.
[01:21:07] Yeah. See, that's why you got to rely on friends. You guys, you gotta have sounding. Sounding. Takes a village or whatever people say. Yeah. But, but yeah, so she was born. We had that first year in that first year in, she, she turned one in March of 2020 and that's when COVID was a real thing. So we had our first birthday in isolation. But if I rewind a couple months before that in January,
[01:21:32] um, my dad passed away and my, and, and my daughter was hospitalized and on like, not an incubator, but she was on oxygen because she had an undiagnosed pneumonia. So this was March of 2020, right? So, so, so when the shit hit the fan. Yeah. So likely the first versions of COVID. They weren't testing for that at the time. We can't, we, I, I dug into it to see if we
[01:21:59] go back in the medical records records to see and they're like, we didn't test for it. So we don't know. But my, my estimation is that she may or may not have had COVID in January of 2020, but either way she was hospitalized and she was on oxygen. My wife was spending time with her in the hospital. Obviously I was dealing with my family and, and my dad's passing and you know, like my daughter and my wife weren't able to come to my dad's memorial because they were in the hospital. Right. And so like, so there was,
[01:22:29] so my journey to fatherhood was a big, long stretch of trauma and, and then we got there and it was, and, and like, and I also, I don't believe that you go through trauma and then you get to something and you're like, yeah, we did it. Like now we're like, I, I, the type of parent that I always thought I would be versus the type of parent that I am. I'm way more overcautious about everything, but because like it didn't come easy and we went through
[01:22:57] these struggles and I realized how like fragile all of this is. So we, both my wife and I are both very careful with certain things, but yeah, it's like, it makes it hard. And I'm sure every parent goes through it where they're like, don't do that. That's risky, but like risky play is important. So you want to let them hurt themselves a little bit, but just enough to learn. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that we, I, I think that for the first few years we had
[01:23:24] the kid gloves on probably more than we would have if, well, with your first kid, you have no idea what you're doing. Yeah. Just like, with the second kid's like, eh, it's fine. Yeah. But, uh, yours are a prime example of that. Well, well, I like, but, but no, I can totally, also you had a boy second. So that, so yeah, my daughter was my first born and same thing. Like, I was just like, oh my God, I have this like little thing to protect now. You know, like my mindset changed. I remember
[01:23:51] driving home from the hospital after she was born and like, people are honking at me. I'm like, fuck you. Yeah. You're going like 20 kilometers an hour. I never went through that portion of fatherhood. You know, like I did my research, like how to place the, the car seat in the car. Like don't put it in the middle because if you get T-boned, well, you know, like things like that I would have never thought of, you know, but like, well, you grew up in Slovakia in old country. So like, you just lay it across the back of the truck. You'll be fine. But, uh, no, like with,
[01:24:21] with my son, it's like, it was, uh, one second kid and two, he was a boy. So I, uh, like, I, I play rough with him a little bit, you know, but like with my daughter, with my daughter, it was just, I felt like, like she always like looked up to me, like daddy's going to protect me. Right. Like, and, and like, uh, right now, like she's turning 16, you know, and like we barely talk,
[01:24:46] man. It's just like, it's, I talked with my wife about it. Like we, I have to find a way to connect with her. It's like not what I want to do. It's what she wants to do. And then, I mean, find some enjoyment in that because I know she likes that. I'll ask her to do things that I want to do. She'll roll her eyes. It just says, fuck you. Well, with Jacob, you get that. Like you, he's into the things you're into. And like,
[01:25:10] I have autumn and like autumn has for part of, part of who she is. You want to talk nature nurture? Like I, she came into my life when she was seven and like the amount of things about her that are me are shocking. Like every, all the time, every week I see something that's like just shocking to me. And like, I've had a different experience coming to fatherhood than you too. And like, it's funny. That's funny. Like Jacob and you have this immediate
[01:25:39] bond on things, but like you talked earlier about like listening to music. I think we've had this conversation before, but like when autumn and I drive autumn school and like we listen to music and like this actually just this morning, I was super tired. I slept like shit. And I, I was taking her to school and I didn't have any music on for the first, like, I don't even know if we got to the end of our street. And she's like, uh, father, are you putting music on? Yeah. And I was like, uh, yeah, of course. Cause we always listen to different kinds of music in the car and like, she's a bit of a secret emo. Don't tell her friends
[01:26:08] because I listen to all that shit and she loves it. But she's like, if I pull up at school and I'm listening to like, bring me the horizons album or whatever it is thrice. And she's like, can you turn it down a little bit? Cause she's like, loves it, but doesn't want anyone to know about it. It's like, I love that. It's just like, we found our bond and like, again, I, I do like she's a 13 year old girl. What do I have in common with the third? Nothing, but you don't have to have anything in common with your kids. They're your kids. They're not your friends. They're your kids. Yeah. Yeah. And like one thing I
[01:26:37] can say, Tommy is like, maybe you haven't found that new connective point with your daughter, but like, she's a great kid. And like, she, she respects you. She loves you so much. And like, you see that when you interact with you guys, exaggerate the whole. Yeah. But like, also she's hilarious, but like, yeah, it's no, it's not like we, we do. But I get what you're saying. Like, I don't, I have less, she's my daughter is less
[01:27:04] susceptible to like things that I want us to have fun doing than she used to be. She used to just do anything with me because she just wanted to hang out. And now it's like, yeah, exactly. Now I got to, now I got to come up with something good enough that she wants to do it. Cause otherwise it's like, nah, I'm okay. And then I got to do the thing where I'm like, no, fuck it. You're coming. And then she's like, all right, fine. It's like that video. Have you guys seen that? Where the guys, guy and a man and a wife sit
[01:27:30] in the car and like, the guy's like, okay, how do I figure out what she wants to eat? Guess where I'm taking it for? Yeah. You know, to Moxie's? Yeah. So like, that's kind of what I'm trying to do with my daughter now. It's like, Hey, listen, like, you know, like, uh, I was thinking of going out and having some fun and like, what do you want to do? You know? And then I always started giving me like a couple options, you know? Yeah. And then lately it's been just want to go to the
[01:27:57] mall shopping. I'm like, okay, don't spend all your money. But at the end of the day, like, you know, I told her, I was like, look, it's your money. You know what you need to save up for? Cause we've had a few rules, uh, in check, but you know, at the end of the day, like this is what you want to do. I'll drive you. Let me drive you. I'll pick you up. I'll be a part of it. Like, let me be a part. And like my daughter doesn't ever try to exclude me. Like if anything, it's my issue trying to wanting to be included. It's like, Oh, this
[01:28:27] isn't my place. Like she's a 13 year old girl right now. She needs like a good example of men from her father and she needs a tighter relationship with her mother to help her get through like her teenage years. And it's like, I'm a little bit envious, but also like, not really. Like, I don't want to be a part of that. Like you're crying a lot. I don't actually necessarily want to like, I'll give you a hug and tell you, I love you. And like, you're always safe if you're around me and that's my job. Yeah. But like, if you want to talk about
[01:28:56] boys, like I only want to hear so much, so maybe better talk to your mom. Cause like, I just want to kill them all. So like that's maybe not productive. Well, and I think you're coming up like yours is about to turn seven. Yeah. You're not far from that stuff starting to happen. And like, no, it's exciting. It's so fun. Like it is such a fun. To see them turn from a kid into a teenage girl and then into a woman, you know, like there are still times
[01:29:23] when I see my 15, 16 year old daughter play with my son as a 10 year old. She goes down to his level. But then at one point she has enough and then she'll, she's now this adult or pretends to be an adult. But then we have, then we have friends who are like you come over, like she'll actually sit down with us and we can have, like we play over New Year's. We played cards against humanity. Yeah. I disagree with that, but we had a conversation. Yeah. But like, you know what? It's like, I wouldn't let my daughter play. Not yet. Yeah. But you know what? But that's the thing. Like it's, it's, it's, I don't even know if I
[01:29:52] should play that game. We're like, we're a ticket, we're a ticket to ride family right now. So I don't have any, I don't have an opinion on this one. It's nice to see her that night. She, she can have a, an adult conversation with adults. Yeah. And like, I love that part. Love seeing that, that, okay. You still can be a kid, but you can also be. Well, and Autumn, Autumn for me, like is she's an only child. Yeah. She grew up around adults. And so she is like, the hardest part for me is actually I have to remember that she's still only her
[01:30:20] age. Like that's been the hardest. It's less now that she's 13, but like when she was eight, nine, 10, like she didn't seem eight, nine, 10. And so it just was like, Oh, I got to remember your yes. Part your vocabulary, your ability to converse are beyond your years, but your emotional intelligence and your experience in life is not. And I like, I had a hard time learning that during those years for her, for sure. I remember when I met her first, it
[01:30:46] was, I was just blown away. I'm like, Holy shit. Like, yeah, you can have a conversation with her. You can't, but then you can't treat her like you think she's that age because it's not fair to her. Like it wasn't fair. And like, I had this set of expectations I would expect out of a 12 year old. Not that I knew what that was like, but I've been 12. So like, I kind of get it. And it's like, this is what I think I should expect of you because of the way we interact. But like, Oh no, I need to taper my expectations here because you're
[01:31:16] nine or like, even now it's like, she's 13. I think of myself at 13. I'm like, why the fuck does she use so many dishes and she didn't clean up after herself? Like, what the fuck did I do? Like, Oh yeah. Who the fuck am I that now? This is now this is all of a sudden some arbitrary expectation I'm allowed to have given on no grounds. Like, no, honestly, you know what I love about having kids the most seeing them grow up, but also learning about yourself
[01:31:43] that you're growing up with them. She has taught me as a person so much and I've changed so much since she came into my life. Like I am a different, there's a lot of things about me that are very different than were beforehand. Yeah. I think, I think that the hard part is like at the end of the day, you just want them to value family and value like themselves and not do like, you
[01:32:11] know, it's like, yeah, you hope they have good friends, but also like teach, like raise them strong enough that they can be that friend that is just like, that's a terrible idea. We're not doing that. Yeah. So my, yeah, my whole thing with like how I've approached it with autumn is like, I can't make her decisions for her and not really as much anymore. Like the older she gets, the less
[01:32:35] I can, but like, I hope I did the enough work and did the right job so that she knows how to make good decisions and she won't always make them. She'll choose to make the wrong ones. I've, I still fucking do. I'm going to do it like in three hours. I'm going to do it very shortly, but like all I hope is I gave her the tools and the information to know what a good decision is to make so she can keep
[01:33:00] herself. A, she's a girl and safe and be just like, make good decisions for your life. Yeah. I think that was a cool eye opener for me when, when we went to Ontario for, for the holidays was my wife's cousin. Uh, she, I'll say her name. She's, this is a compliment, Stephanie and her kids are like 20 and
[01:33:23] 18 or like around that age, right? A 20 year old boy, 17, 18 year old girl. And the amount of like connection and trust. And even when they make a mistake, like they call their mom first. It's like, that to me is the biggest parenting success because you're never going to like not keep your kids from trying beer before they're, uh, you know, before whatever, like, like if they, if they want to do
[01:33:53] it, they're going to do it. If they're going to dabble in like cannabis or they're going to do like, you know, all of those things. So like, so part of, so one of the big things that I try to, I can try to think about all the time is like when I'm working, I need to be super, super productive so that when I'm with my family, I can be super, super present. So that's like sort of where great. Yeah. I like that a lot. Yeah. So like my, my through line for life now is where I was last
[01:34:21] December was like in a depression that I've never gone through before. I've never been like depressed. I've never felt anything like that, that came on from what I assumed at the time was anxiety, but what led to my anxiety was, and now I'm realizing, well, maybe I do have some like ADHD tendencies. So certain things that would lead to that, like, uh, like task paralysis and that kind
[01:34:49] of thing. And then it's like hyper-focused. So like, you know, like Tim, you've known me long enough to know that like, it's like, when I get into something, it's like, I get into something. So it's like, it was like, you want to sous vide some food? We're going to sous vide some food. Like we're going to learn about, we're going to figure this out. Yeah. It's like water is going to do everything for everybody. And I was like, but it's like, it's like, I want to learn all about that so that I don't make mistakes. Right. And so it's like this, like, so what I've learned about
[01:35:16] myself in the last like year for sure, but probably longer than that is like, I had this like high expectation of perfection from myself. Like the expectation that I had of what I should be as a husband, as a father, as an employee, as a friend, as like, just like a walk, like just walking around like what, what I give off in the world. I was at that, I was at a point where I was just like failing at all of those things because I was like, I'm not giving everything, I'm not giving everybody
[01:35:45] the best of me. And what I've really learned over the, over like, again, especially the last year, it's been a lot of like, where the hell am I? Where was I? Where am I going? But looking back, you know, three years, five years longer than that, like, I see a lot of these things that like, I'm just like, Oh yeah, like I'm a people pleaser. And that makes sense why I got into sales because I want to make people happy and I'm good. And, you know, I'm good in a room. I'm, you know,
[01:36:13] conversational, like whether it's like, you know, elderly folks or like kids now that I have kids, I'm like, I'm great with like everything in between. So I can be that chameleon. Like I can kind of like jump into whatever it is. But what I realized is that I was holding myself to a certain standard and all of these things, which was way higher than anyone else around me needed. Yeah. And I was constantly failing myself. So I was constantly beating myself up and negative talk and being like, Oh, I'm not the parent I want to be. I'm not the husband I want to be. I'm not the
[01:36:43] employee I want to be. I'm not the friend I want to be or whatever. Right. Like, and all of those things, they add up over time and time and time. And you just end up getting to a point. I got to a point anyways, person like, you know, from my own perspective, like I was done. I had zero energy left because I had expended everything I had trying to be a version of myself that nobody expected of me or nobody wanted of me. No one was asking for it.
[01:37:11] Nobody was asking for it. And quite frankly, I'm sure nobody even wanted. Yeah. Like, like as Tommy's editing this podcast and mic and muting my mic for most of it, like I don't know. He doesn't do that. Yeah. I talk a lot. And what, so during all of this, like I realized that I process out loud. So now I need to figure out a better way to do that. I can't do it on a zoom call. I've done it.
[01:37:38] And it's led to really, really unprofessional situations or I'm an overshare. And because I think that that's going to make me like in my head, I'm like, maybe that'll make me more endearing. But at the same time, like people are more comfortable with me. And I, and again, things that I would never change about myself. I love being empathetic, but I also know that going through a weekend of really fun, heavy conversations with family, then I'm going, it's going to take me a longer time to
[01:38:08] process all of that stuff. And I'm going to live all of those emotions. So it's not an excuse, but what it is, is it's a, it, it helps me understand that at one point I got to here and it was like depression or whatever you want to call it to me. I, I always feel bad, weird calling it that. Like I don't like, I don't like, I, it's not that bad. So I don't deserve it. But I also
[01:38:34] think that that's probably one of my biggest problems is I minimize my own feelings so that I can make the people around me happier. So it's a balance because I don't want to, I put other people first because I want to create value in people's lives and I want to have purpose. And that gives me purpose, like cooking for people, you know, makes you feel valuable. Yeah. That's all
[01:38:59] the things. It's this validation versus self-care versus validate. Like, I think it's a balance. It's always a balance. And like, like, I love the way you started, we started this conversation when Tommy was, we were doing the check-in, like Tommy was feeling, uh, fuck in the last year I didn't accomplish the things I wanted to. And you very quickly like brought in this concept of like, Hey, what did you accomplish? Cause you didn't do nothing for a year and like, Oh, there is a
[01:39:27] bunch of things that you did. And so I can tell that you're like, you're finding balance in that and finding ways to navigate through that in a positive way for probably you and the people around you and the people you're accountable to and the people that you aren't and what people are, aren't expecting from you. You're expecting what you want from yourself and you're kind of finding, it sounds like you're finding a bit of a way through it on both
[01:39:50] ends. Yeah. As a, as a people pleaser, do you expect some of that, I guess, praise back a little bit? Cause I had a conversation with a buddy of mine where he was just kind of feeling down and I'd like to have him on to talk about this, but he kind of told me, he was like, well, you know, I've done this, I've done that for my family, like been doing all these great things and I should be happy about it. But like, I feel, it feels like I'm missing
[01:40:16] a thank you. And like, it was kind of bringing him down and he felt even bad about that. Right. So he was kind of hitting those low spots. Like, is that something that you've experienced too? Or like, because you said you wanted to be this really good person. So did you feel like you failed because you didn't do it or because maybe you didn't get some of that? Oh, you've thank you for doing this for us. No, that's a great question. Uh, and I think if you would have asked me that like 18 months
[01:40:44] ago or a year ago, I'm, my answer might be different, but I would say I'm terrible at taking compliments. So even when people are giving me my flowers, I'm still just like, ah, I just wouldn't, no big deal. Don't worry about it. So that, that kind of ties it back into that. Like, be grateful for what you have now or be grateful for the progress. Like, don't, you know, cause in my head, like, like here's, here's an example. My father-in-law
[01:41:09] is going to Africa for a stretch of time to go do some like missionary work and some, some stuff that he's very passionate about and means a lot to him. And it's incredible. They, I was like, well, you know what you leave. He left, I think earlier today. I don't know what time his flight was, but I was like, let's, let's have you guys over for dinner, like middle of the week. So we can have one last goodbye. He can see the grandkids before he goes gone for a few months, that kind of thing. And in my head immediately I was like, well, what
[01:41:38] should I cook? Like I, it should be special. Like it should be, you know, so like, so the way that my brain works is just like, I'm just like prime rib lobsters. Like they're like, you know, like you think real big first and then you slowly scale it back, scale it back, scale it back. And then I just landed on him. I'm like, you know what? Like it's really nice out. I want to, I haven't like barbecued for a while. So I made like smash burgers. Nothing's like, yeah, super, super simple, super easy, fun. Something that I'm, I consider
[01:42:06] myself pretty good at. I can be confident in. I'm not going to like have one of those moments where I'm like, ah, I didn't cook the ribs long enough. And now I'm, you know, now I'm depressed about it, which literally happened like in the summertime. Like I've been depressed over ribs too. Don't worry. You probably have to. I mean, you, we all should be. Yeah. If you don't know how to cook the ribs. No, I'm just kidding. No, but it's crazy how like, if I think about the big things that have happened to be in my life, like, like the,
[01:42:36] like the infertility thing wasn't even on my radar when I was driving over here today. And that's a massive part of our life. But the way that I've kind of put it into like, maybe like unhealthy, healthy, I don't know. Like tell us in the comments, like, and subscribe. I don't know how this works. Yeah. We do need an intro. Smash that like button if you guys believe it. No, but like, but you know, it's like, like that was just life. Yeah. And so that's where I
[01:43:04] think now where I'm at and it's way easier to do it for somebody else and give somebody else perspective where I'm just like, I'm like, but what did you accomplish? Don't think about the things you didn't do. Think about what you did do. And I'll give you a perfect example. I did this yesterday and I did this today. I don't always do this, but I think I'm going to start doing this. So one of the things that I always do is I have an alarm in my phone that goes off at 830 in the morning every day to remind me to make sure that I like, you know, took my vitamins, took my meds, like make sure everything's going on. It's just a quick reminder. Right. And almost
[01:43:34] every single day for the last like year and a half, since I've been on like any kind of anti-anxiety med or ADHD med or whatever it is, I get that alarm and I'm just like, I already did that cross, like hit the X. Right. Like, and it's just like, and I realized that I'm creating dopamine, dopamine for myself because of our, because I've already accomplished this thing. Right. So I just
[01:43:59] do all these little like, and like hacks isn't the right word. I feel like that's overused and like maybe a little bit like diminishing of it, but it's like, I just figured out what's going to work for me to set me, to set me up for success. So I know that if I wake up before my family wakes up and I get a little bit of coffee in me and I have a little bit of quiet time, even if it's five
[01:44:22] minutes, 10 minutes, I'm going to be so much better for my family. So I wake up earlier. I just do now like, that's just the way it is. It's easy. It's not a big deal. It's not a sacrifice. It's not, you know, quitting drinking for three months or, you know, light therapy every single morning or ice bathing or this or that. Like the world is telling us that we're supposed to do these, like all of these insurmountable things. They want us to live like Mark Wahlberg and it's like,
[01:44:49] we can't do that. Yeah. Like, yeah. You like, you know who can live like Mark Wahlberg? Frigging millionaire movie stars because they can afford to do that. But for like a regular person that has a regular Joe job and still wants to be a good parent, excel there in their career, be more whatever, like grow in, in any area of goodness. Like, I don't think anyone's trying to like emphasize their like negative aspects of their life. You're like, you know, what sucked for me
[01:45:17] last year? I'm going to lean into that. I'm going to keep doing that. Yeah. You know, I, I, so we didn't do this last episode, but we did the previous one. Uh, I wanted to, I want to bring in quotes, uh, just talk about quotes, uh, that kind of resonate with us. And you just made me think of one. Um, and I don't know how it goes exactly, but it's basically when you wake up in the morning, make your bed. Yeah. Because if you don't do anything else, you've accomplished one thing.
[01:45:44] Yeah. Yeah. And then that, like, as soon as you were talking about like all these little, little things that we do are like the alarm clock, you know, well, I already did that. So the, the, the, that accomplishment and I don't do this. And I said, I'm good. This is actually one thing I said last year that I'm going to try to, I don't, I haven't done it once, but, uh, I think I need to start, try, try doing that because again, it's just a little simple thing is making your bed is it's a pillow and a cover, right? But, um, if you don't do anything else, well,
[01:46:14] you've made your bed. I've heard that one. I like that one. And I think lots of military people use that too as well. And yeah, controversially someone I listened to quite regular says that in one of his books and it's like, you don't want to say his name? Well, it's Jordan Peterson. So like, yeah, like, so Jordan Peterson says that he says, make your bed. Okay. Get up and make your bed. Yeah. And like, there's truth to that. And like, maybe it's not make your bed. Like my wife makes the bed. And so like, I love that she does that, but it's like, I get up and I do that thing. Yeah. That's like one thing that I get up.
[01:46:43] It's done. Yeah. And for me, it's like get in the shower, get up and get in the shower. Yeah. Like I do that before I have coffee. I do that before anything. I get up and I walk into the shower and then when I get out, I'm totally different. Yeah. And like, and then I'm like on a weekend when you don't do that and you like are a little bit. I feel like shit. Yeah. I hate it. Yeah. You don't, when you don't get into that routine. Right. So yeah. So yeah. Like I will echo that, like make your bed, but your version of that. Your version
[01:47:09] of making your bed. Right. And, and so for me, it's like, it's not necessarily making the bed and I'm terrible at that. So I'm glad it's not that, but, um, uh, there's also a long time where I was the guy that got out of the bed early. So maybe I wasn't supposed to be the one that made, that made the bed. Yeah, exactly. Which is maybe why I get out of bed early. I'm just like, I don't want to do this. That gives me task paralysis as your responsibility. I should actually ask my wife, how would you feel about it if I
[01:47:36] started making the bed at four or three 30 in the morning? She's like, I'd like a nice tuck. That'd be great. Yeah. No, but it, it is like, uh, like, you know, talking about quotes, like there's so many things like, and it does almost just turn into sound bites and it feels a little bit cliche and that's, but, but for me, like that's, that works for me. Right. So like, how do I create these little small wins? How do I, how do I do that kind
[01:48:05] of thing? Right. So, so it's just little things like, and again, like it's not some mental hack or some like, I figured out the world. It's like, I just figured out how I work and I don't take credit intrinsically for all of the little things that I do. And I'm not saying that I need a high five because I made my kids breakfast. Not at all. Yeah. But when I put it on a to-do list, like my to-do list today was like, make everyone breakfast, get everyone dressed, get
[01:48:34] everyone out of the house, like, like all these really attainable things that I just do every single day. And then when the family all left and I was like, I'm not driving kids today. This is great. And then I sat down and I poured myself another cup of coffee and I was just like crossing things out. Like, I was just like, man, I like run a marathon now. Like you, you can create this, this dopamine from doing really, really simple, easy things, or
[01:49:01] you can chase it with doing really, really, you know, it's like whatever it is, like whether you're like a cigarette smoker or a drinker or whatever, like all of those things are like instant gratification things. So it's like- So is making your bed. So yeah, yeah, it should be, it should be. No, that concept. It's like you do it by feeding your family. Like you do it in such a productive way for the rest of the world around you and your own life. Yeah. And like, yeah, I could get up and have a whiskey and I probably feel a little bit better. Yeah.
[01:49:31] Like I could get in the shower with a beer and I'd, by the time I'd be great, but nobody else around me would get the benefits of that and I wouldn't feel the rewards attached to that. And like- Yeah, you get the shame of like, oh, like- I drank a beer at eight o'clock this morning. Yeah. Which like on a weekend and camping, cool, but- Yeah. Or at the airport. That's where it counts, but it doesn't count. Yeah. But that, but that, but I think that that's a, that's an important, not a definition,
[01:49:57] but like an important thing to think about is why you're drinking or what you're getting out of it. Right. And I know for me, it's like that, like I'm gonna, I'm having a bad day. I want something to turn this around. It was always like, okay, work is over. Work sucks. Now it's onto my personal life and my personal life is going to be like soaked in whiskey. Like, you know, like it's like, because it was like enough, because that's just how I conditioned myself. Right. It was like, finish a shift at the restaurant.
[01:50:27] You sit down, you have beers with your friends, go to band practice. There's beers there. You go with, you go play a game of spongy or beer league hockey. There's going to be beers after there's going to be the celebration. Like you do the hard thing and then you get to do the fun thing. And I think that it's just really easy. And then COVID exasperated it. I never say that word right. So don't judge me. But, um, but COVID definitely like put that into a new gear when it was like, well, we can't like, there's nowhere to drive to.
[01:50:54] So let's open up that bottle of wine maybe a little earlier than usual. And then that gives us time for a second bottle of wine or whatever it is. Right. Like when you, when you're leaning into that instant gratification and the thing that's really simple and easy to do, those are the things that I think are really, really good to keep on a checklist of, I should pay attention to this. Right. Like, I don't think anyone's ever been like, dude, you eat so many vegetables for breakfast. You're such a loser. Right. Like, right.
[01:51:21] Like it's like when it's a positive thing, the momentum is so hard to keep. And when it's a negative thing, the momentum is so easy to keep. Yeah. So that, so like going back to like quotes and like taglines, like that's a world that I live in. Cause it just, it gives me something to claw my teeth into. And momentum is a word that I think about a lot. So it's like, if I, if something isn't feeling right, how do I change the momentum? And if something is going really great, what am I doing and how do I increase the momentum? Right.
[01:51:49] So I think that what, and, and again, whatever it is, and yes, it's a subject of conversation because you guys just did this three months of sober journey. I'm still doing it. He's still going. So yeah, I'm speaking directly to Tommy now. So Tommy committed to something and he's following through on something good. Please exclude Tim. Yeah. No, but that's fine. I'm cool with that. Yeah. No, but I like, and, and I would never shit on you for that either because what you did was awesome and big.
[01:52:18] And honestly, it encouraged me to be, to be like, you know what? That's a good idea. I should get back into that. So like through November and through December and through January so far, like my alcohol consumption has been so much less than it ever would have been because I knew other guys were doing it and other people are doing it. So it's like, it's like, I should like, it gives you pause. It gives you a little bit of pause. Kind of be aware of how much you're putting in your body. Yeah.
[01:52:45] It's never a bad, it's never a bad thing to just stop, slow down, look around, reflect and say like, is what I'm doing working? Is it servicing me or is it not? And for me with alcohol, it was like, it services me short term, but the longterm effects like, and even by long and like short, longterm effects, like the anxiety that I would get
[01:53:12] after alcohol was enough for me to be like, I can't do this to myself or the people around me because I'm not good. Like I'm not good to be around. Like I want, I need, I want to be secluded. I want to be away from people. And it's just like, so that just wasn't the life that I wanted anymore. And when I was younger, I never thought of that. I never felt that it would, it just, it's, it's definitely changed in, you know, you know,
[01:53:37] my adult years or since turning 40 and having kids and like, like, life just changes. Right. And I just needed to look back and, you know, and, you know, look back currently and like always. And in the future, I'm going to want to like be, it's, it's an ongoing thing, but like, am I the best version of myself when I've had a couple of drinks at night? At night, do I think I'm the best version of myself? And it's like, well, it doesn't really matter.
[01:54:04] Cause it's traditionally, I was just trying to put myself to sleep, but then I'd have terrible sleeps and then I'd wake up and I'd be anxious and I'd be so, yeah. So that, so then those like really important hours where I really want to be impactful for my kids and I really want to be like the best version of me. I just, I, that's where all of my retrospect comes back. Like, I'm like, I never want to be that ever. Like going out for beers with a buddy on Friday night. Sure. Yeah. I did that.
[01:54:32] I went and had a couple of beers and it was totally fine and it was meaningful and we had a good conversation and it was like an event, but the way that my life was six, seven, eight, 10 years ago, everything could have been that. Right. Like, so it's, it's just figuring out, you know, like how do I make these things important? How do I make these things matter? How do I make sure my kids are getting the best example? Right. Like when.
[01:54:59] Well, at different stages of your life, it will be different things that will bring you that joy, that boost, that, that, uh, that umph that you need for life. Well, and I think you're like, I'm set, like your focus is in the right spot and you're doing the right things for yourself. You're doing the right things for your family. Like there's this level of selflessness that like a good father, a good husband, a good person embraces. And like, you are doing that. And so I'm, it makes me so proud. Like we've known each other a very long time.
[01:55:27] And like, I, it makes me so proud to see the man you are today and like to have you sitting here willing to talk with us about this. I do really appreciate that. And so, yeah, thanks man. And like, I think we'll. I feel like, I feel like you can actually write a book, man. Like, not, not because you laugh, you talk a lot, but I do. Sorry. No, no, no. It's all good. I honestly really enjoyed listening to you. Like, I, I never met you before until today.
[01:55:53] And, and it sounds like you, you've had an interesting life. You went through ups and downs and, and I just like your approach to life, the way you're, you're, you presented yourself today here to our audience and to me. And I'd love to have you on again more and just come back. Yeah. Feel free to obviously chime in anytime you want on our, any of our episodes or just let him know, cause I really appreciate what you've, what you said about our show.
[01:56:19] And, um, that's the point of this show is been one of our longest supporters. Yeah. That's, um, I mean, I really appreciate that because it means a lot to me and Tim, um, as a little token, you get your own cup. Yeah. That's the only reason I'm here. Fucking waiting a year for. Yeah. No, that's awesome. And like I said, and I said, I said this off air, but I really love what you guys are doing. Like, I think at the end of the day, as I was driving over here, I was thinking in my
[01:56:49] head, I'm just like, are you prepared to go be vulnerable on camera and on microphones? And that's not an easy thing to do. Right. Like, and you guys do it weekly or like very frequently and you guys have cool guests on and I think that you guys are doing a great job. And I said it before, I love the new format. I love the couches. It's just so comfortable. It's so much better. Like the fact that there's microphones and cameras on like that got, that like left, left so fast. I was like, to like all the viewers, like I was a little bit nervous.
[01:57:17] It's been a long time since I've done anything with a microphone or a camera in my face quite some time. And, uh, yeah, no, you guys are, you guys are doing something really like you're doing something. And I, and I think that that, that you should put that in your, what did I accomplish in 2024 list? Like you're, you're making an impact and it's, and if you guys just keep going, it's only going to keep getting out there to more and more people. And like I said, like you guys have made an impact on me and I know you, so like you've impacted one human being.
[01:57:46] So to me, that means so much. To me, to me, I think that that's a huge win. It is. So every time, every time we get a message from anybody that, Hey, that was a great episode. Like, I'm like, okay, it's worth doing it. Yeah. Right. Thank you so much for being here, Graham. I really appreciate it, man. Like I, I love you and I've, we've known each other so long and I'm just, I'm so fucking grateful that you're here and that you're still my friend after so many years. And like, I just wish all the best and please come back. Oh man.
[01:58:16] It was really nice to meet you. And I can't wait for you to take me out for like one of those fancy dinners with drinks and everything that you talked about. Yeah. Well, Hey, when, Hey, but when, when, when there's not a hundred dollar bill on the line next time I might come back, maybe, maybe I'll bring something fancy for us. Or something like that. Thanks buddy. Cheers. See you guys. Appreciate you guys. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the quiet riot show. We want to give a big shout out to our sponsors for making this show possible.
[01:58:45] And of course, thank you, our amazing listeners for your support. Be sure to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and Tik TOK. We're at quiet riot show on all platforms. Don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel where you can watch full episodes of the podcast. If you're enjoying the show, please rate and review us wherever you're listening. It really helps us grow and reach more listeners like you. We'd also love to hear from you. Have questions, suggestions, or thoughts about the show.
[01:59:13] Drop us an email at quiet riot show at gmail.com. Thanks again for listening. And we'll see you next time on the quiet riot show.