[00:00:00] And that's where the problem is, is like we want to help somebody that we're willing to put our own fucking personal values out
[00:00:06] Yeah to try to help that person and we have to take care of us first
[00:00:10] Like this whole fucking series that you guys do is all about let's take care of us
[00:00:15] Yeah, right. Yeah, because if we're not okay, we can't help anybody
[00:00:19] Yeah, and you get severe burnout from trying to help an addict who doesn't want help. I can only imagine
[00:00:37] Welcome back everybody to the next episode
[00:00:39] What are you doing? Puking? Burping?
[00:00:48] Yeah, sorry, it's the wings. I gotta restart that. I have to restart that again. I was like oh something's coming
[00:00:54] You're leaving it in for the record.
[00:00:56] Alright, alright, well I'm glad we got together again here
[00:01:00] Today's episode I know we've done a lot of stuff
[00:01:06] Well, I'm glad we got together again here
[00:01:10] Today's episode I know we've done this before on a different show
[00:01:18] The three of us have sat on mics in a room together. It was very different
[00:01:22] It was very different but we did discuss the same topic we're going to be talking about today
[00:01:28] But it's going to be more
[00:01:34] I think a little different
[00:01:36] Yeah, it'll be a little more
[00:01:38] I mean we're laughing right now
[00:01:42] Laughing is good though, that's okay. I just won't make some of the same jokes I made last time
[00:01:48] You know laughter is definitely a healer at least for me
[00:01:54] If we can joke about things then life's pretty fucked up then
[00:01:58] I think all three of us can operate on that mentality
[00:02:04] And I know you've talked about it on your podcast in the past
[00:02:08] That if I'm not making fun of you, that means we're not friends
[00:02:12] And like true, my closest friends, we say probably the meanest shit to each other
[00:02:18] My daughter brings that up sometimes. She's like, you guys are so mean to each other
[00:02:24] I'm like that's because we love each other
[00:02:26] I was like, Autumn if anyone comes over here and I'm not making jokes with them
[00:02:30] You don't talk to that person
[00:02:32] That's probably not someone who's going to come over here much
[00:02:34] That's not how my life operates
[00:02:36] 100%
[00:02:38] I think in the end it's all just a mask to bury down the real feelings we want to talk about
[00:02:44] But that's why we do this
[00:02:46] I'm not going to quote word to word this comedian but he talked about
[00:02:50] Also I'm not trying to shit on women
[00:02:52] But this comedian was saying, my best buddy, I'm going to call him out
[00:03:00] You're a fat piece of shit
[00:03:02] You've put on weight man
[00:03:04] You're getting fat
[00:03:06] Behind his back I will raise him up
[00:03:12] He's the best guy
[00:03:14] But not to his face
[00:03:16] And then the comedian goes, and women?
[00:03:18] And I'm like, oh my god that is so true
[00:03:22] Some, some
[00:03:24] Super funny
[00:03:26] There's some truth to it
[00:03:28] It's a little more
[00:03:30] The way we do it is very, I would say more common with men
[00:03:36] And then the way they do it is more common with females
[00:03:38] Yeah, I call you some names
[00:03:40] You call me some names and I know it's with love
[00:03:42] Whereas if our wives called each other like that
[00:03:46] We'd never, I wouldn't be allowed to hang out with you anymore
[00:03:50] I would have to drop a client
[00:03:52] You'd lose me as a client
[00:03:54] 100%
[00:03:56] And we wouldn't be able to do the show anymore
[00:03:58] So, but okay, so all joking aside
[00:04:00] I'd like to welcome our next guest
[00:04:04] Dag Amont
[00:04:06] I've met you, Jesus Christ, a few years ago
[00:04:12] Quite a few
[00:04:14] Years ago
[00:04:16] But I'll never forget
[00:04:18] I know I was very drunk
[00:04:20] I was so drunk
[00:04:22] And I'm like, yeah man, let's go have some beers
[00:04:24] Let's have a drink
[00:04:26] And he's like, man, I don't drink
[00:04:28] I'm like, what the fuck's wrong with you
[00:04:30] But I don't know why he still talks to me to this day
[00:04:34] I don't know why I still talk to you
[00:04:36] But I'm sure I came off as an asshole
[00:04:38] But people call me the lovable asshole when I'm drunk
[00:04:42] People, okay
[00:04:44] Do you have a list of these people?
[00:04:46] It's just people
[00:04:48] All I'm looking for is one name
[00:04:50] Yeah, we met at the pyramid
[00:04:52] At a show, I don't even know which show it was
[00:04:54] Hatebreed
[00:04:56] Was it Hatebreed? Yeah, okay
[00:04:58] Oh, that's right, yeah
[00:05:00] And yeah, so you remember more than I do
[00:05:02] That's because he doesn't drink
[00:05:04] That's one of the benefits of quitting drinking
[00:05:06] And detriments maybe
[00:05:08] Too much clarity
[00:05:10] Too much clarity
[00:05:12] And it's not like we became best friends right off the hop
[00:05:16] But you were part of the music industry
[00:05:18] I was just kind of getting into it
[00:05:22] And we've seen each other at shows
[00:05:25] And then yeah, eventually we just kind of
[00:05:27] I think we just started hanging out more and more
[00:05:29] And then I had a band
[00:05:31] We needed a bass player
[00:05:32] And this guy is one of the best bass players I know in the city
[00:05:35] Or outside of city, I guess
[00:05:37] Let's say outside of city
[00:05:40] Yeah, you've joined our band
[00:05:42] And we've become really good friends since then
[00:05:45] We did the Manitoba Loud Music Awards
[00:05:47] Which we can touch on that a little bit too
[00:05:50] Give yourself plugs all you want
[00:05:54] And Badlands Promotions has done so much for this
[00:05:58] For the Winnipeg music scene
[00:06:01] And I was for a very brief period
[00:06:03] I was part of it too
[00:06:05] And I loved every minute of it
[00:06:07] My life's too fucking busy
[00:06:09] It happens
[00:06:10] Welcome to our show
[00:06:12] Thanks for being here
[00:06:13] I'm glad we're going to
[00:06:15] We're going to kind of unwrap this
[00:06:19] Bad habit of yours that you had
[00:06:21] And we currently have
[00:06:24] Whoa, whoa, whoa
[00:06:26] Okay, habit, I'm just going to say habit
[00:06:28] Save your judgment
[00:06:29] Bad or good
[00:06:32] But I know you
[00:06:34] I didn't know you when you struggled with addiction
[00:06:38] Substance abuse, alcohol and all that
[00:06:41] I've only heard stories from you
[00:06:44] And I think today we'd like to kind of
[00:06:47] Take a deep dive on that
[00:06:49] On that time period of your life
[00:06:52] That you went through those struggles
[00:06:54] And kind of what helped you get out of it
[00:06:57] And what happened after that
[00:07:01] But yeah
[00:07:02] I'm sure you listen to every episode that we put out
[00:07:05] Oh, absolutely
[00:07:07] I definitely didn't just tune in on my way out here
[00:07:11] We do a check-in at every show
[00:07:13] And it's just a little scale that Tim kind of
[00:07:16] Introduced to the show from his own experience
[00:07:22] To kind of know where we're at right now
[00:07:32] That's right, so
[00:07:34] One being you're feeling absolutely shitty
[00:07:37] Ten, you're super happy
[00:07:39] And nothing can get in your way
[00:07:42] Tim, why don't you start it off?
[00:07:45] Uh, okay
[00:07:47] No, I think I'm like a
[00:07:49] Six and a half
[00:07:51] Okay
[00:07:52] Maybe even a seven almost
[00:07:54] That's good
[00:07:56] I'll give some context
[00:07:58] This is a
[00:08:00] A, I've had a really long day
[00:08:04] Welcome to my life
[00:08:06] Me too
[00:08:08] B, we did record an episode
[00:08:10] This is a two episode day
[00:08:12] Yeah, it is a two episode day
[00:08:14] Because as I mentioned in the previous episode
[00:08:16] That I am currently in Europe
[00:08:18] If you're listening to this right now
[00:08:20] So this is a two episode day
[00:08:22] Where we're building up some
[00:08:24] And we had some time and people were available
[00:08:26] So I always get so
[00:08:28] It's strange to do
[00:08:30] A show
[00:08:32] That tends to cover
[00:08:34] Some heavy subject matter
[00:08:36] Not always, it's not meant to do that
[00:08:38] It just, we want to
[00:08:40] You said deep dive Tommy
[00:08:42] And that's a great way to put it
[00:08:44] We want to deep dive and like
[00:08:46] Generally when you deep dive with people
[00:08:48] That comes with some heavy things
[00:08:50] I actually feel
[00:08:52] Better because of it
[00:08:54] It's our last guest
[00:08:56] That we had on the last show
[00:08:58] Which was Tommy McGuire
[00:09:00] His episode will come out whenever
[00:09:02] It's already out
[00:09:04] Or it's already out or whatever
[00:09:06] I'm really bad at this side of the thing
[00:09:10] He said when we were done
[00:09:12] And when we turned the mics off
[00:09:14] He said, hey guys thanks for the therapy session
[00:09:16] There's some truth to that
[00:09:18] I feel that every time we do this
[00:09:20] I love that and I know I say it
[00:09:22] Every goddamn episode
[00:09:24] I can't stress enough
[00:09:26] How important
[00:09:28] This is to me
[00:09:30] What we do here
[00:09:32] On these mics and the people that
[00:09:34] Are so gratefully
[00:09:36] Willing to share with us
[00:09:38] I can't tell you
[00:09:40] How much it's appreciated
[00:09:42] And how much it does for me
[00:09:44] As a person and in my soul
[00:09:46] I was a 6.5, 2 hours ago
[00:09:48] And now I'm a 7
[00:09:50] I tend to not move above a 7
[00:09:52] I'm kind of feeling as good as I normally feel
[00:09:54] Which to me is a huge win
[00:09:56] I'm glad I could bring that out
[00:09:58] Thank you
[00:10:04] I lost my thought
[00:10:06] I wanted to say something on
[00:10:08] What you were saying
[00:10:10] But that's okay
[00:10:12] It'll come back to me
[00:10:14] But I agree with you
[00:10:16] It was such a good conversation
[00:10:18] And even though listeners
[00:10:20] Two weeks later
[00:10:22] Just from two hours ago
[00:10:24] The conversations we've had
[00:10:26] With our previous guest
[00:10:28] Was absolutely fantastic
[00:10:30] I was really excited
[00:10:32] Even before the show
[00:10:34] To talk about parenthood
[00:10:36] Because I think there are
[00:10:38] Way too many dads that are struggling
[00:10:40] And we've touched on that
[00:10:42] That we don't necessarily talk about our feelings
[00:10:44] Because our priory has
[00:10:46] Kind of shifted towards
[00:10:48] Not just our relationship
[00:10:50] But now it's that child
[00:10:52] And then we focus on the mom
[00:10:54] And then our relationship
[00:10:56] And then our styles
[00:10:58] Tommy had said a few times
[00:11:00] This is when I need to put myself in the back seat
[00:11:02] I'm paraphrasing
[00:11:04] But this is when my needs aren't as important
[00:11:06] Those are real moments
[00:11:08] And that's a real thing
[00:11:10] There are moments in life
[00:11:12] Where your needs just
[00:11:14] Aren't as important as others
[00:11:16] Yeah, and so just having those conversations
[00:11:20] Right away my mind
[00:11:22] Kind of started going
[00:11:24] I'm like, holy shit, yeah that's right
[00:11:26] This is important
[00:11:28] So it's something that I'm taking from that episode
[00:11:30] And I'm going to apply now to myself
[00:11:32] My relationship with my wife
[00:11:34] And my relationship with my kids as well
[00:11:36] So I'm already feeling better
[00:11:38] From two hours ago
[00:11:40] So I'm gonna go with a solid 8
[00:11:42] Nice, that's awesome
[00:11:44] I think I was 8 and a half
[00:11:46] Because I think I was an 8 before
[00:11:48] So yeah, definitely moved that bracket up a little bit
[00:11:50] And I love these
[00:11:52] Oh, I know what I want to say
[00:11:54] So I love these pre-recording shows
[00:11:56] We kind of have to bang it out
[00:11:58] So it sucks because it is a heavy day
[00:12:00] But we're taking in so much information now all at once
[00:12:04] What sucks to me
[00:12:06] Is
[00:12:08] Because you mentioned it's kind of like a therapy
[00:12:10] Yeah
[00:12:12] So I was like, I'm gonna do this
[00:12:14] I was gone for actually 5 weeks
[00:12:16] And then
[00:12:18] Started redoing everything in the studio
[00:12:20] So we didn't record for like
[00:12:22] I think over 2 months
[00:12:24] And I was actually missing that
[00:12:26] We just need to record an episode
[00:12:28] So I can kind of get this
[00:12:30] I gotta get some shit off my chest
[00:12:32] Yeah, exactly
[00:12:34] I love this
[00:12:36] And I really hope our listeners get the same thing out of this
[00:12:38] And if you do please let us know
[00:12:40] I love hearing any feedback from this
[00:12:44] Love it
[00:12:46] Dag
[00:12:48] Generally I'm an 8 or 9
[00:12:52] That's very accurate
[00:12:54] I don't see you
[00:12:56] Necessarily
[00:12:58] Down or pissed
[00:13:00] If I see you pissed off
[00:13:02] It's kind of like a temporary thing
[00:13:04] There's a reason and you know how to handle it
[00:13:06] And that's taken a lot of practice
[00:13:08] It's taken a lot of like skills
[00:13:10] Life skills learning and stuff
[00:13:12] And yeah
[00:13:14] So generally
[00:13:16] I'm usually an 8 or 9
[00:13:18] I've learned how to reach out to people
[00:13:20] I've learned how to talk to people
[00:13:22] I've learned how to not hold in my emotions anymore
[00:13:24] Granted there is
[00:13:26] Dark points where I don't feel like
[00:13:28] Like I feel like that burden
[00:13:30] But those are so few
[00:13:32] And far between now
[00:13:34] That's great
[00:13:36] Right now I'm probably about a 9
[00:13:38] Nice
[00:13:40] I don't even know if I've ever been a 9
[00:13:42] It's amazing you should try it sometime
[00:13:44] I think I was there
[00:13:46] That's a 7 for me
[00:13:48] Can't you see how happy he is
[00:13:52] Excellent
[00:13:56] So you guys have known each other
[00:13:58] For a number of years
[00:14:00] 2018 I think
[00:14:02] Yeah
[00:14:04] I think we've met way before that
[00:14:06] But I think 2018 is when
[00:14:08] We actually
[00:14:10] Can consider each other friends
[00:14:12] Yeah
[00:14:14] So Dag do you want to maybe
[00:14:16] You've got a
[00:14:18] I'm sure a long and very involved
[00:14:20] Story that is probably
[00:14:22] Unbelievably interesting
[00:14:24] Do you want to give us a bit of a snapshot
[00:14:26] Of what that looks like so we can kind of
[00:14:28] That will help us guide into
[00:14:30] Sort of what we want to
[00:14:32] Go through here today
[00:14:38] Introduced into
[00:14:40] I was raised in an alcoholic home
[00:14:42] Alcoholics and musicians
[00:14:44] And I was always surrounded by musicians
[00:14:46] And the fellowship that musicians bring
[00:14:48] That's what I
[00:14:50] Just got so high off that
[00:14:52] But unfortunately
[00:14:54] When you're 6 or 7 years old
[00:14:56] You associate that with alcohol
[00:14:58] That's what's around
[00:15:00] It kind of became the norm right?
[00:15:02] Yeah by 12 I was drinking
[00:15:04] I don't even remember my first drink
[00:15:06] I hear so many people tell their story
[00:15:08] And they're just like oh and I remember my first drink
[00:15:10] I don't remember when I had my first drink
[00:15:12] I just know an incident
[00:15:14] When I was 12 for sure
[00:15:16] That I was drinking
[00:15:18] And so by 12 I was drinking
[00:15:20] By 15 I was drinking every weekend
[00:15:22] And by 18 as a full blown alcoholic
[00:15:24] I dabbled in weed a little bit
[00:15:26] At 15 and it just
[00:15:28] It's not for me
[00:15:30] It gives me paranoia and anxiety
[00:15:32] And no matter what strain it is
[00:15:34] It just messes me up really bad
[00:15:36] And so it's not worth it for me
[00:15:38] But I hated drugs
[00:15:40] Like my whole life
[00:15:42] I hated drugs
[00:15:44] And then I hated what they did to my friends
[00:15:46] I hated what they did to my brother
[00:15:48] I hated like I seen my idols on stage
[00:15:50] I never wanted to be my idols like that right?
[00:15:52] And at 27
[00:15:54] I had gotten into drugs
[00:15:56] And pretty heavy too
[00:15:58] It was just like
[00:16:00] Do you want to name some of them?
[00:16:02] I was on coke mostly
[00:16:04] I really enjoyed mushrooms
[00:16:06] I was on ecstasy for a little while
[00:16:08] I always said that my bottoms
[00:16:10] Would be meth, crack and heroin
[00:16:12] I think those are
[00:16:14] Pretty valid bottoms
[00:16:16] I think that's fair
[00:16:18] And so 3 months before I got clean
[00:16:20] I had actually started
[00:16:22] I had done fentanyl patches
[00:16:24] I didn't have any drugs around
[00:16:26] Nobody had any in town
[00:16:28] What's a fentanyl patch?
[00:16:30] So it's a slow release
[00:16:32] Fentanyl is one of the
[00:16:34] Strongest
[00:16:36] Opioids
[00:16:38] And they have patches
[00:16:40] That sort of slow release
[00:16:42] Into your system
[00:16:44] How can you get your hands on?
[00:16:46] They prescribe them
[00:16:48] They are something that are prescribed
[00:16:50] You got to be
[00:16:52] In pretty serious
[00:16:54] Pain situation where you're beyond
[00:16:56] A lot of other
[00:16:58] Methods
[00:17:00] Of pain management as they would call it
[00:17:02] And the way my buddy was doing it
[00:17:04] Is he had cut up this patch into small little tabs
[00:17:06] And you'd just suck on it
[00:17:08] Fast track it
[00:17:10] Absolutely right, but they are just tiny tabs
[00:17:12] And I was like
[00:17:14] Well because you can OD on this shit
[00:17:16] That's the shit that's killing people
[00:17:18] So that's what
[00:17:20] That's part of the
[00:17:22] Epidemic of this fentanyl thing
[00:17:24] That it's so
[00:17:26] So potent
[00:17:28] And then we've got
[00:17:30] It's a whole thing, Chinese fentanyl coming in
[00:17:32] Which is worse in black market
[00:17:34] And not regulated
[00:17:36] And in China it's legal to produce it
[00:17:38] And it's probably not regulated
[00:17:40] It's a fucking nightmare
[00:17:42] Is what it is
[00:17:44] And so I spent
[00:17:46] Three days
[00:17:48] I was dope sick for three days
[00:17:50] And I was like, K, yeah
[00:17:52] I said I wasn't going to do opioids
[00:17:54] More specifically heroin
[00:17:56] But opioids is opioids
[00:17:58] It's kind of all the same
[00:18:00] Yeah, I don't understand why my friends are so hooked on it
[00:18:02] And all I did was nod off and puke all night
[00:18:04] Like it wasn't a good time
[00:18:06] And three months later
[00:18:08] I was doing heroin
[00:18:10] And only one night
[00:18:12] I had
[00:18:14] Said no to it until it was right in front of me
[00:18:16] It was beside me
[00:18:18] I said no
[00:18:20] My buddy moved it in front of me
[00:18:22] And like nothing I just snorted a fat line of heroin
[00:18:24] And the next day
[00:18:26] I went to a concert
[00:18:28] And
[00:18:30] I got clean
[00:18:32] The day after that
[00:18:34] And it wasn't because I was using heroin
[00:18:36] So I have no doubts in my mind
[00:18:38] That if I would have stayed in that world
[00:18:40] I'd be probably running around stealing bikes
[00:18:42] If I was even alive
[00:18:44] Yeah, exactly
[00:18:46] So, okay, so
[00:18:48] That's a very quick summary
[00:18:50] To what is probably a very in-depth
[00:18:52] story
[00:18:54] But it gives us some context
[00:18:56] So
[00:18:58] So you grew
[00:19:00] Up with alcohol around
[00:19:02] Probably some amount of drugs
[00:19:04] Maybe just weed or something
[00:19:06] And weed I would tend to argue
[00:19:08] Is or isn't a drug
[00:19:10] At the time
[00:19:12] At the time
[00:19:14] At the time, yeah
[00:19:16] And still
[00:19:18] You can abuse it
[00:19:20] It depends on how it's
[00:19:22] Any mind-altering substance that you do too much of
[00:19:24] Too often is a problem
[00:19:26] And weed and alcohol
[00:19:28] And cigarettes all fall into
[00:19:30] The same category
[00:19:32] My argument to that is like
[00:19:34] I don't smoke pot now
[00:19:36] But I've smoked my fair share
[00:19:38] And I've
[00:19:40] Smoked a lot of pot
[00:19:42] And I've never
[00:19:44] Blacked out from it
[00:19:46] Oh, I have
[00:19:48] Oh yeah, greened out? Oh, I've greened out, buddy
[00:19:50] I mean, I've
[00:19:52] And that's what happens to me every time
[00:19:54] Oh really? That's just your
[00:19:56] And the thing is maybe I didn't smoke enough
[00:19:58] But like I remember being Heisekite for hours
[00:20:00] And I still remember
[00:20:02] Every single thing I've done
[00:20:04] And to me, that was just like
[00:20:06] Alcohol's way worse
[00:20:08] Well, it is worse
[00:20:10] If we're ranking them
[00:20:12] It's worse
[00:20:14] By a mile it's worse
[00:20:16] Alcohol is definitely up there with crack and heroin and stuff, right?
[00:20:18] Yeah, just it's legal and everybody drinks it
[00:20:20] So it's acceptable
[00:20:22] And so, well even with
[00:20:24] Like my argument with weed is
[00:20:26] I've seen people become dependent on it
[00:20:28] Right?
[00:20:30] I can't function without it
[00:20:32] I also see the medicinal value in it
[00:20:34] Sure, of course
[00:20:36] I can see the recreational value in it
[00:20:38] You know, like I see all sides of it
[00:20:40] I don't think alcohol has a medicinal value
[00:20:42] No
[00:20:44] No
[00:20:46] And so weed does
[00:20:48] Beer does
[00:20:50] It's good for your kidneys
[00:20:52] Is it really because
[00:20:54] No
[00:20:56] It's actually
[00:20:58] It flushes the kidneys actually
[00:21:00] Well you piss a lot when you drink it
[00:21:02] So maybe that's a thing
[00:21:04] And it's good for skin as well
[00:21:06] That's why they have beer baths
[00:21:08] I have so many jokes I want to make
[00:21:10] But it's the wrong show
[00:21:12] Okay, so you grew up
[00:21:14] Around it
[00:21:16] So you would have had probably a different experience
[00:21:18] With alcohol and drugs than
[00:21:20] Most would
[00:21:22] Or then lots would
[00:21:24] Maybe not most but lots
[00:21:26] For sure different than mine
[00:21:28] I grew up in a home where those things were going to
[00:21:30] You're going to hell if you touch them
[00:21:32] And then I went to the LC with my dad the other day
[00:21:34] So that was interesting
[00:21:36] He clearly
[00:21:38] Changes his tune
[00:21:40] So would you
[00:21:42] Say that that probably had put you
[00:21:44] In a position to
[00:21:48] Be susceptible to the level
[00:21:50] Of intensity that your alcoholism
[00:21:52] And your drug addictions were
[00:21:54] Or became
[00:21:56] Like I said
[00:21:58] The fellowship that
[00:22:00] The music brought
[00:22:02] Music does that
[00:22:04] Six or seven years old sitting on my mom's lap
[00:22:06] At three o'clock in the morning while all of her friends
[00:22:08] Are sitting around smoking cigarettes drinking beer
[00:22:10] Doing whatever else
[00:22:12] But they're all playing music
[00:22:14] They're all playing guitars and singing
[00:22:16] And having a great time
[00:22:18] The energy in the room
[00:22:20] It's romanticized
[00:22:22] Unfortunately those things were tied to it
[00:22:24] But I thought
[00:22:26] I tied that to it
[00:22:28] You're going to get that when you drink as well
[00:22:30] Right?
[00:22:32] Also
[00:22:34] Having my mom
[00:22:36] Dismiss some of my feelings when I was
[00:22:38] Little
[00:22:40] Unintentionally she never did it on purpose
[00:22:42] It's just
[00:22:44] She grew up in a home where you didn't talk about feelings
[00:22:46] So I was just like
[00:22:48] I was a very soft kid, very sensitive
[00:22:50] I just wanted to love and be loved
[00:22:52] And that was it, learn and grow
[00:22:54] And being somebody
[00:22:56] With an original name
[00:22:58] And
[00:23:00] Being a kid with undiagnosed
[00:23:02] ADHD
[00:23:04] And
[00:23:06] I got bullied
[00:23:08] A lot
[00:23:10] So I didn't understand watching my friends getting bullied
[00:23:12] I didn't understand watching myself get bullied
[00:23:14] I didn't understand
[00:23:16] Violence or any of that stuff
[00:23:18] I just knew love
[00:23:20] Because my home was a loving home as well
[00:23:22] They never fought
[00:23:24] That's what I heard of
[00:23:30] But yeah
[00:23:32] I came home from school one day and I was just in tears
[00:23:34] And I said to my mom
[00:23:36] Why are kids mean?
[00:23:38] And she just kind of
[00:23:40] It's okay, you'll be okay
[00:23:42] But now that told me
[00:23:44] The one person who matters most to me
[00:23:46] The one persons whose opinion
[00:23:48] Means the most to me has just told me my feelings don't matter
[00:23:50] So then I'm bottling up feelings
[00:23:52] So between the two things
[00:23:54] It was
[00:23:56] Well you can bottle them up and then you drown them
[00:23:58] And then that's where we end up
[00:24:00] Well I think that
[00:24:02] I've always felt
[00:24:04] And I was actually saying it to our last guest
[00:24:06] Because he came from sort of a music background
[00:24:08] As well
[00:24:10] Or he did come from a music background as well
[00:24:12] I think that
[00:24:14] I noticed when we do this show
[00:24:16] When we do episodes
[00:24:18] When we do episodes with someone who's involved in music
[00:24:20] Or has a life in music
[00:24:22] Or plays music
[00:24:24] Or has been in a scene playing
[00:24:26] It's just
[00:24:28] It's a different show
[00:24:30] It's not like having an accountant sit across from me
[00:24:32] And work on
[00:24:34] Deep diving
[00:24:36] We're musicians
[00:24:38] All of us here are musicians
[00:24:40] Or have been
[00:24:42] We're comfortable with
[00:24:44] We're a lot more comfortable with emotions
[00:24:46] With exposing ourselves
[00:24:48] In that sense with talking about those things
[00:24:50] We're all way more comfortable
[00:24:52] Because music does that
[00:24:54] You write songs
[00:24:56] You express emotions and feelings
[00:24:58] You use the word fellowship
[00:25:00] There is no better word than fellowship
[00:25:02] For what music creates
[00:25:04] Unfortunately in your circumstance
[00:25:06] It came along with fellowship of things that weren't so good
[00:25:08] But
[00:25:10] That's what happened
[00:25:12] What was your
[00:25:14] So you said 18
[00:25:16] You were basically full blown
[00:25:18] Going for it
[00:25:20] Like you were just an alcoholic
[00:25:22] Drinking all the time
[00:25:24] How did that affect your life
[00:25:26] Your relationships, your friendships
[00:25:28] Were you playing music at that point?
[00:25:30] I was
[00:25:32] Attempting to
[00:25:34] I couldn't find the right people to play with
[00:25:36] Because
[00:25:38] Growing up in a small city
[00:25:40] I have about 2000 people where I live
[00:25:42] Where do you live?
[00:25:44] In Portis de Prairie
[00:25:46] And like
[00:25:48] A lot of the people who
[00:25:50] The people who
[00:25:52] Were in the punk music scene
[00:25:54] When I was growing up
[00:25:56] A lot of them
[00:25:58] The people who shared the same
[00:26:00] Lifestyle I did
[00:26:02] They moved away
[00:26:04] A lot of them went to Banff to go work
[00:26:06] There was a few
[00:26:08] Who didn't really party
[00:26:10] Like I did so I didn't really feel like
[00:26:12] I fit in with them
[00:26:14] And then so at like 19
[00:26:16] I started actually really getting involved in the music scene
[00:26:18] Like playing and stuff like that
[00:26:20] Okay
[00:26:22] So yeah
[00:26:24] It was just like I was already
[00:26:26] Fully into it and then I found a group of guys
[00:26:28] To play with
[00:26:30] And I played with them for
[00:26:32] I think 2 years
[00:26:34] Before everything blew up
[00:26:36] A little longer
[00:26:40] But yeah it was
[00:26:46] Getting on stage the first time
[00:26:48] After I got clean
[00:26:50] Was a million times better than
[00:26:52] Getting on stage the very first time
[00:26:54] Wow okay
[00:26:56] So
[00:26:58] Is that because you
[00:27:00] You were more aware of
[00:27:02] What's going on and I guess
[00:27:04] Your feelings
[00:27:06] You were taking in your
[00:27:08] Feelings what you were feeling almost like
[00:27:10] For the first time
[00:27:12] With a clean head right
[00:27:14] When I went into it
[00:27:16] Again I never wanted to be my idol
[00:27:18] So I was never going to drink on stage
[00:27:20] I was never going to do drugs or anything like that
[00:27:22] I didn't want to be
[00:27:24] Rolling around on the stage like Nicky Six
[00:27:26] And
[00:27:28] If I was rolling around it's because I'm having
[00:27:30] A great time or tumbled or something
[00:27:32] Yeah absolutely
[00:27:34] And I didn't
[00:27:36] Want to be those people so I wanted
[00:27:38] To be sober and
[00:27:40] After a little while
[00:27:42] I joined this band where like it was a drunk
[00:27:44] Jam band
[00:27:46] Where like we never jammed sober
[00:27:48] And it was just a jam band
[00:27:50] And then we ended up taking it a little more serious
[00:27:52] But we never played sober
[00:27:54] And I booked both bands in the same night
[00:27:56] For a show
[00:27:58] And the idea was
[00:28:00] Was that the sober band was going to play before
[00:28:02] The drunk band
[00:28:04] But we had to switch
[00:28:06] Roles so I had to be
[00:28:08] Drunk for the third
[00:28:10] Set of the night and then like
[00:28:12] Sober for the last set? That didn't even
[00:28:14] Make sense
[00:28:16] So I learned I could play
[00:28:18] Drunk and I always
[00:28:20] Did after that
[00:28:24] It caused ripples throughout the years
[00:28:26] My behaviors were
[00:28:30] Quite subpar
[00:28:32] If I was still
[00:28:34] In that
[00:28:36] World I was just telling somebody about
[00:28:38] This the other night if I was still in that world
[00:28:40] I would have been cancelled
[00:28:42] I would have been in that cancelled culture
[00:28:44] I would have been one of those people who were just like
[00:28:46] That motherfuckers not welcoming our scene
[00:28:48] Do you want to
[00:28:50] Elaborate on that a little bit?
[00:28:52] You don't have to go into
[00:28:54] Specific details but as in like
[00:28:58] Were you
[00:29:00] Hurting somebody?
[00:29:02] Not physically
[00:29:04] I was hurting relationships
[00:29:06] I'll say that
[00:29:10] I didn't care who I screwed over
[00:29:12] Basically
[00:29:14] I was making friends in the music scene
[00:29:16] Just to try to sleep with their wives
[00:29:18] Or something right?
[00:29:20] That's how horrible it was getting
[00:29:22] That was later on
[00:29:24] It got really bad later on with the drug use
[00:29:26] Stuff like that
[00:29:28] At the end of the day I didn't love myself
[00:29:30] I didn't care who I was going to fucking hurt
[00:29:32] How are you going to care about anybody else?
[00:29:34] Absolutely
[00:29:36] You were top priority
[00:29:38] I had myself convinced I loved these people
[00:29:40] And I do love them
[00:29:42] The real me does love them
[00:29:44] Way past the booze and everything like that
[00:29:46] That me did love those people
[00:29:48] And I still do to this day
[00:29:52] But I've had to make a lot of fucking amends to people
[00:29:54] Yeah
[00:29:56] Actually I was just thinking
[00:29:58] I'm going to throw this question in there
[00:30:00] Have you actually
[00:30:02] Hurt some people
[00:30:04] Where you went back and made peace
[00:30:06] Like hey sorry for
[00:30:08] Isn't that part of the
[00:30:10] Process?
[00:30:12] Yeah
[00:30:14] Do you still have that relationship now?
[00:30:16] So you had a relationship with someone
[00:30:18] You fucked them over
[00:30:20] And then now a few years later
[00:30:22] You kind of went back and be like
[00:30:24] Hey I'm sorry for that and you're continuing that relationship
[00:30:26] So funny story
[00:30:28] If that makes sense
[00:30:30] There was this band
[00:30:32] And I won't say their name
[00:30:34] But there was this band
[00:30:36] And the drummer and guitar player
[00:30:38] Husband and wife
[00:30:40] And they were just engaged at the time
[00:30:42] Or they were boyfriend and girlfriend
[00:30:44] And I got along with them really good
[00:30:46] They're nice people
[00:30:48] But my shitty addiction
[00:30:50] Caused me to message her
[00:30:52] One night and he messaged me
[00:30:54] Back from his profile and he just said
[00:30:56] That's not fucking cool man
[00:30:58] You know you're super fucking
[00:31:00] Disrespectful and I was like
[00:31:02] I didn't get it till the next day and I was just like
[00:31:04] I'm sorry man I was really fucked up
[00:31:06] And blocked right? Get it
[00:31:08] Okay I have to live with that now
[00:31:10] Well you must have had how many of those scenarios
[00:31:12] Well yeah
[00:31:14] And years go by
[00:31:16] And
[00:31:18] Probably
[00:31:20] 2017ish
[00:31:22] 2018ish
[00:31:24] I booked a show in Portage
[00:31:26] And somebody had suggested
[00:31:28] This band come out
[00:31:30] And play
[00:31:32] So I didn't do any dealings with them
[00:31:34] It was just suggested that they come out
[00:31:36] And play so they came out and played the show
[00:31:38] And when they walked
[00:31:40] Of the show I found out that this couple is in this band
[00:31:42] And I'm just like
[00:31:44] Holy shit
[00:31:46] We should have done some fucking research on this
[00:31:48] But
[00:31:50] I knew that was my opportunity
[00:31:52] Like the amends right? Like I was already
[00:31:54] Sober for four years or whatever
[00:31:56] Four or five years
[00:31:58] And I was already doing better
[00:32:00] So they walked in and they saw me
[00:32:02] And they just kind of stopped in their tracks
[00:32:04] And I said
[00:32:06] Where do we load in? And I said I need to talk to you two
[00:32:08] Really quickly before anything
[00:32:10] Like I just want to get this out
[00:32:12] That you know like that's who I was
[00:32:14] That's not who I am today
[00:32:16] Since gotten sober
[00:32:18] I've done tons of work on myself
[00:32:20] And I just want to put this behind us
[00:32:22] Like I'm truly sorry for any pain I caused you guys
[00:32:24] And they forgave me
[00:32:26] And we all had a great night
[00:32:28] My relationship with them
[00:32:30] Is not the same
[00:32:32] But they let go of the resentment
[00:32:34] And I got to let go of that
[00:32:36] Holding that resentment to myself
[00:32:38] Is that
[00:32:40] Do you find that
[00:32:42] In that situation people are
[00:32:44] Generally forgiving
[00:32:46] And gracious? Not always
[00:32:48] Not always yeah
[00:32:50] Which is also fine
[00:32:52] Everyone gets their own thing
[00:32:54] Yeah and I've learned that
[00:32:56] That I can't make people forgive me
[00:32:58] I cannot make people forgive me
[00:33:00] I have to accept that sometimes they're going to say
[00:33:02] I'm not ready yet
[00:33:04] Now what do you
[00:33:06] Now what's the approach
[00:33:08] Like if you go
[00:33:10] So if you go through the process of like
[00:33:12] Here's who I was
[00:33:14] I'm genuinely sorry for what happened
[00:33:18] And what I did or how this affected you
[00:33:20] I'm not sure there's tons of language around it
[00:33:24] But like is that your point of letting go
[00:33:28] Regardless of their reaction
[00:33:30] Or is that just a starting point
[00:33:32] To repair damage
[00:33:34] Like how do you perceive those
[00:33:36] The damages repaired by the immense part of it all right
[00:33:38] I mean I said I'm sorry
[00:33:40] How many fucking years in a row
[00:33:42] Nobody fucking believes me
[00:33:44] You know what I mean
[00:33:46] When do you let yourself let go of it
[00:33:48] When
[00:33:50] Maybe let go is the wrong word
[00:33:52] No it's a good word to use
[00:33:54] When do you forgive yourself
[00:33:56] Maybe that's a better way to put it
[00:33:58] So
[00:34:00] Once I know I've done everything I can
[00:34:02] Then I can forgive myself
[00:34:04] Then I don't need to hold onto it anymore
[00:34:08] As long as I've done my part
[00:34:10] So I can say I'm sorry
[00:34:12] I can say I'm a changed man
[00:34:14] Because I've said that a million fucking times
[00:34:16] But I'm actually doing it now
[00:34:18] You know what I mean
[00:34:20] I'm making a living immense to so many people
[00:34:22] By just being a different person
[00:34:24] Being better
[00:34:26] And genuinely making that effort
[00:34:28] To say I'm sorry
[00:34:30] Yeah and me
[00:34:32] And out of sincerity
[00:34:34] And real true honesty
[00:34:36] Clarity and honesty
[00:34:38] Absolutely
[00:34:40] So the first time you
[00:34:42] Tried to make amends with somebody
[00:34:44] I'm sure it was in the back of your mind
[00:34:46] Where it's like shit
[00:34:48] If they say no I don't forgive you
[00:34:50] Would that
[00:34:52] Kind of set you back a little bit
[00:34:54] Was that like a super scary
[00:34:56] Part for you
[00:34:58] Part of healing
[00:35:00] Like you were part of obviously
[00:35:02] Some type of rehabilitation
[00:35:04] Recovery program
[00:35:06] Do they prepare you for that process
[00:35:08] Because that's got to be one of
[00:35:10] Because that could be a trigger point
[00:35:12] Is it scary
[00:35:14] To walk into that step
[00:35:16] Yes it is
[00:35:18] It's very scary because like I said
[00:35:20] For as long as I can remember
[00:35:22] This is the life I know
[00:35:24] And you have to face it
[00:35:26] And I have to face it
[00:35:28] Now you have to face not yourself
[00:35:30] You have to face other people
[00:35:32] Absolutely
[00:35:34] So the big thing
[00:35:36] Is that like
[00:35:38] I
[00:35:40] I just have to be
[00:35:42] Open minded
[00:35:44] That my way is wrong
[00:35:46] My way of handling things is wrong
[00:35:48] Because every time I've tried
[00:35:50] To handle things my way
[00:35:52] It's just locked up even worse
[00:35:54] So open minded to listen
[00:35:56] To people who have been there
[00:35:58] Open minded to listen to people who
[00:36:00] Generally have a better understanding on how life works
[00:36:02] And then be willing
[00:36:04] To go through that process
[00:36:06] Even if it's fucking scary
[00:36:08] And I've learned that if it's scary
[00:36:10] You're on the right steps
[00:36:12] I mean it shouldn't be easy
[00:36:14] You'd assume it shouldn't be easy
[00:36:16] Absolutely not
[00:36:18] If it's easy you're drunk
[00:36:20] I'm just doing the thing
[00:36:24] I want to
[00:36:26] This is very
[00:36:28] I think I said this last show too
[00:36:30] But a lot of things happen in my life like this
[00:36:32] This is very divine timing that you're here today
[00:36:34] I was just going to bring it up
[00:36:36] I had a very intense
[00:36:38] And interesting couple
[00:36:40] Of interactions with a very old friend of mine
[00:36:42] In the last two weeks
[00:36:44] That are very much
[00:36:46] Along in alignment
[00:36:48] With your history
[00:36:50] And your struggles
[00:36:52] I would really like to touch on that a little bit
[00:36:54] From
[00:36:56] How he's talking to me
[00:36:58] And how we're communicating
[00:37:00] And what he's feeling
[00:37:02] I would love your perspective on
[00:37:04] What your journey was like in relation to
[00:37:06] What I'm going to tell you in a little bit
[00:37:08] So I'd love to take a quick break
[00:37:10] If you don't mind I'd really love to share that
[00:37:12] Because it's actually been weighing super heavy on me
[00:37:14] And I don't know
[00:37:16] Anybody better than you to have this conversation with
[00:37:18] For me to be a better
[00:37:20] To understand how to support
[00:37:22] Let's take a short break and then let's come back
[00:37:24] Hey Tommy
[00:37:26] Among all the episodes we've recorded
[00:37:28] There's one common theme
[00:37:30] And that's getting therapy
[00:37:32] We've talked about it lots
[00:37:34] Many many times
[00:37:36] You had a really tough time making that first phone call
[00:37:38] I had a tough time making that first phone call
[00:37:40] I didn't even know if the person I was going to see
[00:37:42] Was the right person
[00:37:44] But you gotta just try
[00:37:46] Thank goodness we have a sponsor
[00:37:48] That makes it way easier now
[00:37:50] BetterHelp has an online platform
[00:37:52] That allows you to fill out a questionnaire
[00:37:54] They connect you with a therapist
[00:37:56] And you get to communicate with them
[00:37:58] However you want
[00:38:00] So whether that's text messaging, that's emails
[00:38:02] That's through their app, that's video chats
[00:38:04] You get all those options
[00:38:06] And it makes it way less scary
[00:38:08] To be connected with someone
[00:38:10] And if you're not into the person you talk to
[00:38:12] They'll sign you another one right away
[00:38:14] I've gotten assigned mine already
[00:38:16] And I can't wait to use it
[00:38:18] By the time you hear this
[00:38:20] I will have had my first session
[00:38:22] And I'm super pumped to talk about it on the show
[00:38:24] Yeah I'm very excited about it
[00:38:26] And it's very easy to sign up
[00:38:28] It took us maybe 5 minutes to sign up
[00:38:30] And you answer just simple questions
[00:38:32] And next thing you know
[00:38:34] You got a message that
[00:38:36] You will be paired up with a therapist
[00:38:38] And within the same day we got the therapist
[00:38:40] And we got the name and message from them
[00:38:42] And we were able to communicate with them
[00:38:44] So it's extremely easy
[00:38:46] So please go to
[00:38:48] Betterhelp.com
[00:38:50] Betterhelp.com
[00:38:52] Slash quiet riot show
[00:38:54] And you get to also
[00:38:56] Enjoy 10% off for your first month
[00:38:58] If you sign up using this link
[00:39:00] So again
[00:39:02] Right here, I'm going to be doing it from here
[00:39:04] It's betterhelp
[00:39:06] Am I screwing it up?
[00:39:08] Slash quiet riot show
[00:39:10] Yeah
[00:39:12] Sign up today and
[00:39:14] You're not going to regret it
[00:39:16] Because I'm already enjoying it
[00:39:18] Just the fact that we connected with a therapist
[00:39:20] Me too man
[00:39:22] Thank you to Betterhelp for supporting this podcast
[00:39:24] Before the break we talked a little bit
[00:39:26] We've gotten a bit of your
[00:39:28] Story and I'm not even a
[00:39:30] Sliver of it but
[00:39:32] Something and so
[00:39:34] I've been
[00:39:36] I have a very very close friend
[00:39:38] We've actually known each other since nursery school
[00:39:40] And never lost touch
[00:39:42] I was the best man in his wedding
[00:39:44] We've had a very tight relationship
[00:39:46] He moved his family down to
[00:39:48] Nashville a bunch of years ago
[00:39:50] Background blah blah blah
[00:39:52] He
[00:39:54] So couple things
[00:39:56] His family
[00:39:58] In his genetics and maybe you can comment on this
[00:40:00] There's alcoholism
[00:40:02] In his family
[00:40:04] It runs in his family
[00:40:06] Is that something that you're
[00:40:08] Seems like a thing
[00:40:10] Definitely a thing
[00:40:12] Same with my dad
[00:40:14] And my dad's family
[00:40:16] They're all alcoholics
[00:40:18] That's a thing
[00:40:20] He's had a
[00:40:22] He moved to Nashville
[00:40:24] Got this great job for what he went to university for
[00:40:26] I don't want to say too much
[00:40:28] Because I want to keep him
[00:40:30] Anonymous but
[00:40:32] He's married, he has two kids
[00:40:34] Has this picturesque beautiful life
[00:40:36] Struggles with alcohol
[00:40:40] I only found out three days ago
[00:40:42] How bad it actually was
[00:40:44] But it's bad
[00:40:46] So he
[00:40:48] Was drinking too much
[00:40:50] And he's not abusive when he drinks but
[00:40:52] He was drinking too much
[00:40:54] His wife was uncomfortable with it
[00:40:56] It affects his surroundings
[00:40:58] It affects his life regardless of
[00:41:00] Whether he's yelling at them
[00:41:02] Or beating them, it still has this negative
[00:41:04] Impact
[00:41:06] So
[00:41:08] She kicks him out
[00:41:10] He goes to rehab
[00:41:12] Says he can't
[00:41:16] Afford to go to rehab for more than two
[00:41:18] Weeks, goes for two weeks
[00:41:20] Should have gone for a month
[00:41:22] Comes out not fully
[00:41:24] Equipped to deal with coming out of that
[00:41:26] I don't
[00:41:28] The feeling I got from chatting
[00:41:30] With him, I talked to him the other day
[00:41:32] For quite a while
[00:41:36] He said two weeks wasn't enough
[00:41:38] You've had those experiences
[00:41:40] I'll pause and look for
[00:41:42] Your feedback
[00:41:44] We can probably open up
[00:41:46] This conversation to a learning
[00:41:48] Experience for people who don't understand
[00:41:50] Alcoholism for what it is
[00:41:52] And maybe
[00:41:54] Are a part of it in their lives
[00:41:56] In some form and don't understand what to do
[00:41:58] Also
[00:42:00] Something like that
[00:42:02] Somebody that knows
[00:42:04] That they have a problem
[00:42:06] But they may be afraid to make that step
[00:42:08] To go into rehab and
[00:42:10] Talk about
[00:42:12] What that experience is like
[00:42:14] I don't know what rehab is like
[00:42:16] Why don't we start there
[00:42:18] I don't know what rehab is like either
[00:42:20] I never went
[00:42:22] I wish I did
[00:42:24] Don't get me wrong
[00:42:26] That's okay
[00:42:28] I wish I did because
[00:42:30] I probably wouldn't have struggled in sobriety as long as I did
[00:42:36] Rehab gives you
[00:42:38] The tools to function
[00:42:42] It gives you a safe place to be while you're learning
[00:42:44] The tools to function in society
[00:42:48] Addiction is much
[00:42:50] Further than that
[00:42:52] The reason they call it a disease is because of the way we think
[00:42:54] The way we react to things
[00:42:56] Like I said earlier
[00:42:58] My way is the wrong way
[00:43:00] That's my addiction brain
[00:43:02] That's the way my brain processes things
[00:43:04] That's the way I handle things
[00:43:06] It gives you these tools
[00:43:08] To work on
[00:43:10] Some of the stuff that
[00:43:12] Created you to turn to
[00:43:14] Substance to
[00:43:16] Numb or substance to
[00:43:20] Just function
[00:43:22] It helps you
[00:43:24] Acknowledge all those things
[00:43:26] But there's maintenance after that
[00:43:28] That's what it is for me
[00:43:30] I have to continue
[00:43:32] To maintain these things
[00:43:34] And I have to keep stepping out of my comfort zone
[00:43:36] To keep trying new things
[00:43:38] That are probably better for me
[00:43:40] Even though my brain tells me
[00:43:42] Not to
[00:43:44] You have to constantly check yourself
[00:43:46] Every day
[00:43:48] Because what your brain is telling you
[00:43:50] Is often not
[00:43:52] The right thing
[00:43:54] It tells me to do destructive things
[00:43:56] Does that ever change?
[00:43:58] No
[00:44:00] It gets easier in time
[00:44:02] Like today
[00:44:04] I'm not so dependent on
[00:44:06] My recovery groups
[00:44:08] I'm not so dependent on people in my recovery
[00:44:10] Because I know they're there
[00:44:12] And I do keep
[00:44:14] In contact with them regularly
[00:44:16] Because they've shown me that
[00:44:18] They actually care
[00:44:20] Whereas a lot of the people from my old days
[00:44:22] Didn't give two shits about me
[00:44:24] Most of them didn't even notice I was gone
[00:44:26] I still have people
[00:44:28] Like I've been sober for almost 11 years
[00:44:30] And I still have people coming up to me
[00:44:32] Saying, hey do you want a drink?
[00:44:34] Or let's have a drink and catch up
[00:44:36] And I'm like, I haven't drank in almost 11 years
[00:44:38] And they're like, shut the fuck up
[00:44:40] When did you quit?
[00:44:42] Eleven years ago
[00:44:44] You didn't even fucking notice I was gone
[00:44:46] So it's a daily maintenance thing though
[00:44:48] Because I know that
[00:44:50] When I stop doing my self care
[00:44:52] When I stop
[00:44:54] When I start pushing away the people who are healthy for me
[00:44:56] When I start pushing away
[00:44:58] People who generally want my best interest
[00:45:00] And I start associating with those people
[00:45:02] Because that's your default
[00:45:04] Yeah
[00:45:06] Your default behavior
[00:45:08] Yeah
[00:45:10] Is push the good people away
[00:45:12] Bring in the negative people
[00:45:14] And just love the shit out of them
[00:45:16] And
[00:45:18] When I stop taking care of myself
[00:45:20] Those people start
[00:45:22] Showing up in my life
[00:45:24] And these people slowly stop mattering
[00:45:28] And then I become angry
[00:45:30] I become sarcastic
[00:45:32] I become passive aggressive
[00:45:34] I become, you know
[00:45:36] Like all these people I'm not
[00:45:38] I've gone back to being that
[00:45:40] Eight year old boy who just wants to love and be loved
[00:45:42] Like I said
[00:45:44] Most days I'm an eight or a nine
[00:45:46] Because I just love life
[00:45:48] I love
[00:45:50] Everything about it
[00:45:52] I love all the people that I've met
[00:45:54] I love everything about
[00:45:56] I love my journey
[00:45:58] But then when I stop taking care of myself
[00:46:00] I start finding the resentments in it
[00:46:02] What does taking care of yourself look like for you?
[00:46:04] What is that?
[00:46:06] Well
[00:46:08] Doing
[00:46:11] Doing things like
[00:46:15] Working on the stuff that hurts me
[00:46:17] My past traumas
[00:46:19] Handling situations
[00:46:21] Before they get out of hand
[00:46:23] If I've created a situation
[00:46:25] Where like
[00:46:27] I've made somebody upset at me
[00:46:29] Like I get on that right away
[00:46:31] So those are little life skills I've learned
[00:46:33] Self care is also
[00:46:35] You know like showering every day
[00:46:37] Making my bed every day
[00:46:39] And then I'm like
[00:46:41] Making my bed every day
[00:46:43] Brushing my teeth
[00:46:45] My hair is coloured
[00:46:47] I take care of my hair
[00:46:49] I do things for me
[00:46:51] As long as it's not putting me out
[00:46:53] Because again my brain will tell me
[00:46:55] To do things for myself in excess
[00:46:57] Where like
[00:46:59] It's just like okay so I've got this much
[00:47:01] To pay my bills
[00:47:03] I can afford to
[00:47:05] Get my hair done
[00:47:07] I can afford to maybe get a tattoo
[00:47:09] Maybe an hour session
[00:47:11] But my brain will tell me
[00:47:13] To go for a full three hours
[00:47:15] And then I'm like fuck
[00:47:17] And then I go into panic mode
[00:47:19] And it's right away like oh shit I need to spend this money
[00:47:21] On something else that's going to give me instant gratification
[00:47:23] And that
[00:47:25] Stems from that
[00:47:27] The root of what that all comes from
[00:47:29] Like the root of addictions
[00:47:31] And all that
[00:47:33] It doesn't just apply to substance
[00:47:35] No, no
[00:47:37] Substance is only a symptom
[00:47:39] Of the disease
[00:47:41] Right?
[00:47:43] Like I said we do
[00:47:45] Destructive things you know
[00:47:47] So one of the destructive things we do
[00:47:49] Is we go, I remember
[00:47:51] I lived in this
[00:47:53] Apartment and
[00:47:55] To give you a general guideline
[00:47:57] Of how long ago it was
[00:47:59] My rent was $535 a month
[00:48:01] And it was a two bedroom apartment
[00:48:03] That's a long time ago
[00:48:05] So
[00:48:07] My bills
[00:48:09] I could afford to pay my bills
[00:48:11] If I wasn't drinking so much
[00:48:13] And so I would get a check
[00:48:15] Where like I couldn't manage money
[00:48:17] Or anything like that
[00:48:19] I would get a check and I'd just be like
[00:48:21] Fuck I called in sick too many times
[00:48:23] Like during this pay period
[00:48:25] Now my checks really low
[00:48:27] Fuck what am I going to do
[00:48:29] And rather than just give my landlord some fucking money
[00:48:31] And tell him like I'm going to be late
[00:48:33] I'm going to drink and think about this
[00:48:35] I'm going to do something destructive
[00:48:37] Well I
[00:48:39] To distract or delay
[00:48:41] Or yeah
[00:48:43] Anything but
[00:48:45] It's three days later and I'm fucking
[00:48:47] Laying in a fucking
[00:48:49] Someone's bed I don't know who
[00:48:51] In some fucking random town
[00:48:53] And I haven't showered for days
[00:48:55] I haven't ate for days I haven't anything
[00:48:57] But I'm super fucking hungover
[00:48:59] And I've got no money
[00:49:01] And I still haven't fixed the rent problem
[00:49:03] That's right
[00:49:05] I've actually made it worth
[00:49:07] So you mentioned that
[00:49:09] You've done some recovery groups
[00:49:11] Right
[00:49:13] So and you haven't done
[00:49:15] Rehab but what is the
[00:49:17] Difference other than
[00:49:19] I understand that in rehab you're
[00:49:21] There in that facility
[00:49:23] And going through the steps and recovery group
[00:49:25] You assume you go there like
[00:49:27] Meet once a week or twice a week or whatever
[00:49:29] Yeah
[00:49:31] As far as like
[00:49:33] Effects of both
[00:49:35] Because I kind of still want to go back to
[00:49:37] Your question
[00:49:39] Let's slowly get there I'm way more
[00:49:41] Yeah
[00:49:43] What do you think you didn't get
[00:49:45] From recovery groups that you would have gotten from
[00:49:47] Rehab because you said you wish
[00:49:49] You had done rehab
[00:49:51] So one of the things
[00:49:53] Would it just be kind of get you
[00:49:55] Where you are right now sooner
[00:49:57] Or is there something else
[00:49:59] Yeah probably sooner because
[00:50:01] Being in that safe place
[00:50:03] Like I know
[00:50:05] And I can't say for sure because
[00:50:07] I wasn't there right
[00:50:09] But I know that like
[00:50:11] The last time I was at a stabilization unit
[00:50:13] I went there and
[00:50:15] I was determined to fucking learn everything
[00:50:17] I could because that's why I was
[00:50:19] There I wasn't there for the holiday
[00:50:21] I wasn't there for a little break from
[00:50:23] Society like I kind of was but
[00:50:25] But they taught me things
[00:50:27] And I listened right
[00:50:29] And when I got clean
[00:50:31] When I realized that
[00:50:33] Shit if I quit drinking I'll quit doing drugs
[00:50:35] If I quit drinking maybe I'll quit
[00:50:37] Mistreating women you know if I quit
[00:50:39] Drinking maybe I'll pay my fucking bills
[00:50:41] Maybe I won't be 75 grand in debt
[00:50:43] Because the only people getting paid are
[00:50:45] Drug dealers and beer stores
[00:50:47] If I quit drinking maybe
[00:50:49] I'll fucking go to work every day
[00:50:51] Far fetched but
[00:50:53] Or most days
[00:50:55] I won't be hungover
[00:50:57] When I'm there I might be better
[00:50:59] But I guess it's small wins
[00:51:01] I guess you have to like
[00:51:03] So at that point I was determined
[00:51:05] To do whatever it took to get clean
[00:51:07] Except go to treatment
[00:51:09] And again that's my head saying
[00:51:11] It's a mental thing
[00:51:13] Because rehab
[00:51:15] Or treatment whatever you want to call it
[00:51:17] That's a really dramatic
[00:51:19] Shift and one that's forced
[00:51:21] Essentially can be forced upon you
[00:51:23] In one way or another
[00:51:25] Like my buddy's wife
[00:51:27] Said no you're going to rehab
[00:51:29] Or this is what the consequences of that are
[00:51:35] And like well what are you gonna do
[00:51:37] And he had a great job
[00:51:39] He was functioning well at his job
[00:51:41] He was showing up to work
[00:51:43] To a point which we'll get to
[00:51:45] But like he was a
[00:51:47] Psychiatrist in one of the
[00:51:49] Top seven school divisions in the United States
[00:51:53] Like a career man
[00:51:55] Like a really
[00:51:57] And a very smart man
[00:51:59] A very honorable man that I've always known
[00:52:01] And I've known him
[00:52:03] Never to be anything different
[00:52:05] Yeah we drank together
[00:52:07] But we had fun every time we did it
[00:52:09] Like that's where I was at with it
[00:52:11] Until fucking four days ago
[00:52:13] Or three days ago
[00:52:15] When I learned a little more about this
[00:52:17] And so
[00:52:19] So he went
[00:52:21] He went for two weeks
[00:52:23] He didn't go for the full month which was
[00:52:25] Or 20 some day whatever
[00:52:27] He didn't go for the full length
[00:52:29] Because now I want your commentary on this
[00:52:31] He said
[00:52:33] I couldn't afford to go
[00:52:35] For that long
[00:52:37] I can't be away from work that long
[00:52:39] He said to me
[00:52:41] Probably all
[00:52:43] And he said this to me three days ago
[00:52:45] So basically just excuses
[00:52:47] Is that how you perceive that
[00:52:49] This is not unfamiliar commentary
[00:52:51] That was the excuse I made
[00:52:53] Was I can't be away from work that long
[00:52:55] I have child support to pay off
[00:52:57] Child support to catch up on
[00:52:59] I have like all $75,000 of fucking debt
[00:53:01] Like everything just got chaotic in my fucking head
[00:53:03] I can't be gone for a whole
[00:53:05] 28 days or whatever
[00:53:07] So that was his moment in that
[00:53:09] So he went for two weeks
[00:53:11] He came out
[00:53:13] When it ended up being quite a while
[00:53:15] More than six months
[00:53:17] Then
[00:53:19] Something happened to
[00:53:22] So she had kind of told him
[00:53:24] At this point like
[00:53:26] Here's what you're doing
[00:53:28] Here's how it's affecting our family
[00:53:30] And here's what's going to happen if you don't fix this
[00:53:32] Like if you don't correct this
[00:53:34] This is what's going to happen
[00:53:36] Like we are leaving
[00:53:38] She gave him plenty of warning
[00:53:40] Like years of warning
[00:53:42] Then so everything was going
[00:53:44] Sailing along fine
[00:53:46] He was doing his thing
[00:53:48] They were together, he was with the kids
[00:53:50] He was living like during that rehab
[00:53:52] And just before that she had asked him to go
[00:53:54] Stay somewhere else
[00:53:56] She's protecting her kids
[00:53:58] Is really what it came down to actually
[00:54:00] And I've had some time to think about our conversation
[00:54:02] With him or my conversation with him
[00:54:04] And like talk to my wife about a little bit
[00:54:06] Because I needed some input
[00:54:08] And guidance
[00:54:10] A mother and a wife's position
[00:54:12] And all this
[00:54:14] And she's been through that
[00:54:16] My wife's ex-husband who is the
[00:54:18] Sperm donor for my daughter
[00:54:22] That's even probably too much of a compliment
[00:54:26] He struggled with drug addiction
[00:54:28] Alcohol
[00:54:30] Like every addiction you can find
[00:54:32] Which I guess it's all just one
[00:54:34] Struggles with addictions
[00:54:36] To whatever level
[00:54:38] So she actually understands how that works
[00:54:40] And she had a daughter in that scenario
[00:54:42] Who she had to protect
[00:54:44] She had to protect not only herself
[00:54:46] Which she was actually willing to sacrifice
[00:54:48] For her daughter
[00:54:50] Our daughter
[00:54:52] So he had been given fair warning
[00:54:54] She ended up getting some medical news
[00:54:56] That was negative
[00:54:58] They lost a baby
[00:55:00] They were having their third child
[00:55:02] She was pregnant with their third child
[00:55:04] She lost a baby
[00:55:06] Those things obviously
[00:55:08] Set them off
[00:55:12] Talk to me about triggers
[00:55:16] Triggers and tools to handle
[00:55:18] Said triggers
[00:55:20] I did not see that question coming
[00:55:22] I was trying to figure out where you're going with this
[00:55:24] Very good
[00:55:26] That's why I keep you around
[00:55:28] That's where that daily maintenance comes in
[00:55:30] The daily taking care of yourself
[00:55:32] Going to the recovery meetings
[00:55:34] I go to those fucking meetings
[00:55:36] How long?
[00:55:38] If it's not broke, I'm not going to fix it
[00:55:40] Another way to look at it
[00:55:42] Is if a diabetic stops taking their insulin
[00:55:44] They're going to get sick again
[00:55:46] If I stop going to my recovery meetings
[00:55:48] I'm going to get sick again
[00:55:50] You're sure not doing yourself any favors
[00:55:52] Absolutely
[00:55:54] So why would I just not go sit with these junkies for an hour
[00:55:56] Talk about shit that we're all familiar with
[00:55:58] And then they're going to get sick
[00:56:00] I'm going to go to the recovery meeting
[00:56:02] But that's the only thing I'm all familiar with
[00:56:06] And then chances are I won't use that day
[00:56:08] It's really that simple
[00:56:10] Is that what it's about
[00:56:12] That day, that hour
[00:56:14] I guess everyone's got a different timeline
[00:56:16] As you go down the process
[00:56:18] The other part of addiction for me
[00:56:20] Is
[00:56:22] I will look into the future
[00:56:24] I'll look into the past
[00:56:26] And live in those two areas
[00:56:28] And I'll just piss all over today
[00:56:30] do lots. So just focusing on today, my brother who is also in recovery tried my way of getting
[00:56:42] clean and it didn't work for him a lot of years, whereas me it was just like, okay
[00:56:47] I'm done, I have to be done forever so I gotta be fucking make sure I do whatever
[00:56:51] I have to to make sure I'm done forever.
[00:56:53] Now do you, not to cut you off, but do you feel like you're a bit of an anomaly in that sense?
[00:57:02] I definitely am. Because one of the things I struggle with is when people come into recovery
[00:57:10] and then they go back out. And then they come in and they go back out. And no matter how many
[00:57:15] meetings they're doing, no matter how much care they're taking of themselves, they still
[00:57:18] make that decision to go back out. And you just want to shake them and throw them against the wall, but that's not going to do any fucking good.
[00:57:26] Is there frustration in that for you? Or is it angry frustration or loving frustration?
[00:57:34] Loving frustration. I don't understand why these people can't just get it the way I did, right?
[00:57:42] Because I came in and I stayed in. It's life or death. I was willing to make those fucking
[00:57:48] changes, right? And that's where I struggle in certain aspects of recovery, right?
[00:57:54] Is because I watch all these people. I watched my brother come and go for fucking years and years
[00:58:00] and years and years. Like he's five years now so for like six years I watched him. He's supposed
[00:58:04] to be a day more sober than I am. He bought drugs off me the night that I was doing heroin
[00:58:09] and then said fuck this I'm done tomorrow. And he did. He quit. And the day after that I quit.
[00:58:15] And he was sober for like eight or nine months and then went back out. And like I watched him fucking
[00:58:23] struggle, right? And I'm going like why don't you just fucking get it? Like just come to meetings,
[00:58:27] keep in touch with the sponsor, you know? Like work your recovery. And I wasn't doing all those
[00:58:32] things but I was making sure that like my daily maintenance to take care of myself was done.
[00:58:36] And I was still living very chaotically but I was doing it sober. So the problem is, is like
[00:58:43] without a recovery program, whatever that may be,
[00:58:49] you become what's called a dry drunk or a dry druggie and you're doing all the same things
[00:58:55] you were doing in active addiction but you're doing it sober. So that's where the addiction,
[00:59:02] the drug use or whatever is just a symptom of it, right? It's who we are. And if you don't
[00:59:10] change those behaviors you're not going to ever get better. It's actually not about the thing.
[00:59:16] No, it's definitely not. So and it sounds like your buddy made that effort to be the
[00:59:24] better person but at the end of the day he's got that genetic in him where he's going to,
[00:59:32] that disease in him where he's going to handle his shit by turning to the bottle.
[00:59:37] Yeah, so he did. Okay, so that his wife was sick, something happened, they lost the baby. That was
[00:59:48] obvious like I think for anyone ever that's a hard thing. Like that must be unbelievably
[00:59:54] difficult. Never mind if you're weak, if you're sick, not weak, sick, if you're sick.
[00:59:59] Yeah. So he went back to it, then he was trying to hide it. I think that's a normal thing.
[01:00:07] That's a very normal thing. Yeah, that's a super normal thing. I think most people know about that
[01:00:12] and if you don't that's what happens. He had brought, now it was interesting and he may
[01:00:18] listen to this and call me out which is great he should but part of, so he had said I bought
[01:00:25] a bottle, I was drinking, I didn't want my wife to know, I didn't want her and the kids to know
[01:00:33] so I put it in my work bag and I was going to throw it away at work.
[01:00:36] I didn't say to him in that moment, you sure you weren't just taking it to work to drink it
[01:00:41] at work? Because that's what I felt right away. Right, yeah. And I don't want to,
[01:00:45] I don't know if that's judgmental or that's just maybe you're not being entirely
[01:00:50] truthful of me in this scenario because to me that sounds like that's what that is. Like why
[01:00:54] wouldn't you leave in the car then? Like yeah, there's a million, you had a million, I just wanted
[01:00:58] to throw it away. Why did you throw it away on the way to work? Stop at McDonald's.
[01:01:01] Absolutely. Yeah, toss it out the fucking window. Like there's a million ways to get rid of it.
[01:01:05] You couldn't get rid of it that's, but hey he's on his own journey. That's the simple
[01:01:09] situation. It's okay. Just throw it out. So we did it. He kept it. Well and he kept it
[01:01:15] because I think, did he drink it at work? I don't know if he did or not. Did he want it
[01:01:19] there so that maybe he could if he wanted to? Probably. I think that's a reasonable thing to say
[01:01:25] unless you disagree. So they found it. They have a zero tolerance policy in that field and in
[01:01:34] those school divisions, which is fair. I think that's reasonable. So his license was suspended.
[01:01:39] He had to resign from his job and his license was suspended. Holy fuck. Like so he had to
[01:01:45] go home and tell his wife I lost my job. I lost my license for two years. Like it's suspended
[01:01:52] for two years. He's a psychiatrist. That's a real job that pays really well, that feeds a
[01:01:58] family, supports a family, all these things. He chose like, and he talked to me about it
[01:02:03] numerous times throughout the conversation. Like I knew the risks and I still did it.
[01:02:08] Well and I think people don't think clearly in that state of mind. Whether you're
[01:02:15] under the influence or not. That's the disease part of it. Yeah, you're used to this norm,
[01:02:21] right? And you're lying to your family, you're lying to your friends, you're lying to yourself.
[01:02:27] And you truly believe that that is the only solution. And until you've, I guess you
[01:02:34] change your mindset and get into that like yourself where like no, this is what I need
[01:02:38] to do for myself every day to get better and continue to do that. Continue the steps,
[01:02:45] continue the good habits, right? That stop you from grabbing that bottle of beer,
[01:02:52] weed, whatever it is, right? In 2019 I dated a girl who was an alcoholic and
[01:02:59] you know she did drugs prior to me and she was allegedly you know clean from them or whatever.
[01:03:06] And like this girl, like I was super in love with her and like I just fucking like made her my whole
[01:03:13] fucking world. Like I would have thrown everything away for her and she slipped back into drug use
[01:03:19] and I never noticed. Right? Now that I know that she did, I can see all the things that-
[01:03:25] Sure, hindsight.
[01:03:26] See the signs and everything but-
[01:03:27] At the time?
[01:03:28] Hindsight 2020.
[01:03:29] Well you were blinded by the love right? Like you were really happy with it.
[01:03:31] Yeah, yeah, right. So-
[01:03:33] That's a song isn't it? It must be a song by somebody.
[01:03:36] No, not that one but there's gotta be a song.
[01:03:38] Blind love, it starts with a no.
[01:03:41] So anyway I dated this girl and like fucking everything was amazing. We never fought,
[01:03:47] not once in a year. We didn't fight once. We talked, we communicated. Everything was
[01:03:52] awesome until she went back into drug use. And I always said to her like I don't care if you
[01:03:59] drink, I'm the one with the fucking problem right? If it affects our relationship then
[01:04:03] we have to talk about it right? A conversation.
[01:04:05] Yep.
[01:04:05] Reasonable?
[01:04:06] Absolutely, right? I'm making a fucking choice to date an alcoholic.
[01:04:11] I can make a choice to work through things or whatever right? So she hid that from me
[01:04:19] and I just kept saying to her like we gotta talk, we gotta talk about this soon
[01:04:22] and she said I'm not ready to talk to you yet. You know I need space. And I gave
[01:04:26] her space. I was more than happy to give her the space.
[01:04:29] That's fair, yeah.
[01:04:29] Right? I didn't want to be overbearing.
[01:04:31] It's a tough conversation to be had.
[01:04:33] Absolutely, but I didn't know she had used it yet right? I just know that something happened
[01:04:38] during a fucking drinking bender and still blinded by love. I didn't see all the
[01:04:43] fucking signs. I led to her being up all night using blow. And so anyway, she uh
[01:04:52] after two months of neglect, two months of this, I just need more time. I need more time.
[01:04:59] I was starting to think to myself like maybe if I just show up with a fucking case of beer,
[01:05:03] she'll want me around. And this is like fucking six, seven years clean already.
[01:05:09] It's going against your code.
[01:05:11] Yeah and then I'm like uh oh I'm in danger. Like I need fucking help. So you know again
[01:05:16] going to my recovery groups and stuff like that and really leaning on my friends in recovery,
[01:05:20] my family in recovery because they are like a family. And so that got me through all that
[01:05:27] toughness and listening to all these people in recovery saying like you need to fucking leave
[01:05:31] that relationship because now your recovery is in jeopardy. Now you're at risk. Yeah so I finally
[01:05:37] left it and like and it was fucking hard for me to do. Like to this day, I'm shit terrified
[01:05:43] that if to this day she came up to me and said yeah you'd fall right back in. Absolutely
[01:05:47] right. Yeah of course. So I'm happy that we don't talk. I'm happy that you know she's moved
[01:05:52] on with her life and whatever right. I wish her nothing but the best. And so
[01:06:01] then years later like my mom died last year or last two years, almost two years ago. Yeah.
[01:06:07] And that's coming up. That was fucking hard right. Like that was like
[01:06:15] fuck the most important person in my life just died. Yeah. And I still didn't fucking use.
[01:06:20] Like to me the only thing worse than losing a parent or losing your mom and specifically a mom
[01:06:26] and I don't care if you've had a shitty relationship with your mom, you lose your mom.
[01:06:31] If you don't have those resentments to her, if you lose your mom that's the person that carried
[01:06:36] you for nine months. They brought you into the world. Yeah. That's the person who's supposed
[01:06:41] to and I say that because some mothers are kind of fucked up that way but like generally
[01:06:47] that's the woman who's gonna, that's the one person who's gonna love you more than anybody
[01:06:50] else possibly could. Yeah. Right. So when you lose your mom no matter what. Yeah I agree. That
[01:06:54] is like the fucking hardest thing ever aside from losing a child. Yeah. That's the only thing
[01:07:00] I imagine is worse than losing your mom. Yeah. Right and for me like that lifestyle
[01:07:07] is not enticing enough for me to go back there so I'm at a point in my recovery where
[01:07:13] I know that my recovery family, my recovery group, those are the people I need to lean on
[01:07:18] because they're gonna help me through all these thoughts of like I just need to numb this. Yeah.
[01:07:23] And I know a quick fix. I do know a quick fix. Of course. You know. It'll be done probably
[01:07:27] right away. Yeah. Yeah. I still live in the town I got fucked up in you know like
[01:07:33] I know drug dealers still. I know. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's not hard. No. Exactly. Yeah it's
[01:07:39] super easy right. But the better option is to stick close to my recovery group. Right. And so
[01:07:43] my buddy had his church part of what he moved down there for was this church and a faith that
[01:07:48] him and his wife and I'm not here to shit on anyone's anything like yeah oh he joined this
[01:07:53] church it's a bit of a out there church but everyone says it's culty and okay fine but
[01:07:59] well and all I said to him was like hey man and I grew up in the church and I have I'm
[01:08:04] the man I am today because of it. Yeah. I don't believe in it anymore but that doesn't matter.
[01:08:09] And this church has been under lots of scrutiny there's this documentary it's a whole fucking
[01:08:15] shit show but all I said to him at the beginning is hey man I'm all good with you
[01:08:19] doing this all with your family I'm not here to get in your way. Yeah. If you and your wife
[01:08:23] and your family are happy and healthy and your kids are happy I think it's fucking amazing.
[01:08:27] Yeah. Whatever's doing that for you I think is the fucking best. For sure. Whether I believe
[01:08:31] it or not does not matter. Yeah. And so then the church shut him out.
[01:08:38] Yeah. So his he moved down there for this church he that was his recovery group that was his
[01:08:46] family. Yeah. His fellow church members and everything and because they've been under all
[01:08:53] the scrutiny from the media and blah blah blah they cut him out. That's horrible. He
[01:08:58] told me that the other day he's like yeah they told me I can't be I can't attend anymore
[01:09:03] I can't even watch the online fucking sermons. Right. I can't be a part of this at all.
[01:09:11] I had an immediate reaction where I said well that sounds fucking Christ like
[01:09:16] and then I paused and I just said you know what man that's not appropriate. Like I
[01:09:20] absolutely my feelings about this about your belief system are not valid and like not
[01:09:26] important. Trust me. And so I stopped immediately and apologized because I said that wasn't a fair
[01:09:31] statement. I'm sorry. Yeah. But that was my first thought. I said someday we can have
[01:09:36] that conversation if you ever want. Yeah. But today is not the day for doing that.
[01:09:40] That was my first thought though because it's as a as a and I can just assume as an alcoholic
[01:09:47] or a substance abuser. An addict. An addict. Yeah. When you're leaning on a group or a person
[01:09:58] and if they reject you. Oh yeah then you're fucked. I mean that that's gonna be the probably
[01:10:03] one of the worst triggers for you. Absolutely yeah because the people you've invested everything
[01:10:08] into and learned to trust right. Because in that world I don't even fucking trust myself how
[01:10:13] am I going to trust anybody else right. Yeah. And now I got to fucking trust all these strangers in
[01:10:18] these rooms. Yeah. Right. And you do. And it turns out they fucking want nothing more than
[01:10:23] for me to stay clean. Yeah. Right. Cool what more like that's the fucking the greatest thing
[01:10:28] anybody could ask of ask of me right. But it's a jump it's a risk. It is. And you do the same
[01:10:32] for others. They look at you and go like why the fuck would this guy care. For sure. Yeah.
[01:10:37] So the people he cared about the most who he needed the most fucking bailed on him. Yeah.
[01:10:45] And never mind their church their Chris I don't care about that. Yeah yeah. The people closest
[01:10:48] to him fucking bailed. Yeah. He's got nobody else. Yeah. He has his family who he doesn't
[01:10:53] have anymore she's kicked him out. She sent him divorce papers a week ago. Wow. He had
[01:10:58] another incident with a relapse. He went to rehab again before that it's it goes on and
[01:11:05] you've heard this story a thousand times. For sure. To play to play devil's advocate
[01:11:11] do though for you know I'm not sure how many times it has happened where he's tried to
[01:11:18] get clean and fell back. You know I assume three significant ones. Yeah. So I assume
[01:11:23] his wife now whether she gave him ultimatum or not my mom gave my dad ultimatum when
[01:11:31] she was pregnant with me and he went to rehab and he cleaned up and everything you know and
[01:11:37] it sucks because I know one person now very close one that like he's fallen off the wagon
[01:11:46] and I think and I think maybe not in your case because you're you've managed to do
[01:11:52] yourself and you're still doing it but I think many people try and fall off and try and fall
[01:12:00] off and I don't think many people can say that they've tried once and then they stayed. Well again
[01:12:06] we talked about dags and anomaly. Yeah well and I mean like I don't classify all the times
[01:12:12] throughout my fucking drinking career that I tried to quit for a day or two or whatever.
[01:12:18] Those were dry out periods that's what I used to calling them right. I need to learn how
[01:12:22] to fucking drink better. It's not a recovery it's not a it's not a change. So I see that
[01:12:28] maybe his wife was just had enough and sure you know what like you can throw the divorce papers
[01:12:34] on there maybe she's hoping that this is going to be a wake-up call for him right and maybe
[01:12:40] let's hope right this is a wake-up call and then and they it just kind of reverses eventually
[01:12:47] and they'll be happy again right. We can only hope for our friends and family and just to
[01:12:52] we have to because if we don't have hope they're fucked yeah exactly someone has to
[01:12:56] the sticky part about that is when you are in a relationship with an addict
[01:13:03] you are the most susceptible to enable that addict right by taking him back because he's
[01:13:10] sorry taking him back because he's crying you know taking him back because things are going
[01:13:13] to change right. I fucking said that a million fucking times like it was a part of my regular
[01:13:18] vocabulary and it fucking worked every time. That does not help me just enables yeah it
[01:13:24] enables me right so I mean good on her no disrespect to your friend. No no no yeah I
[01:13:30] understand you know like you said she's got to protect her kids right and that's when you
[01:13:34] become impaired that's their number one priority. Yeah and that's her way to end
[01:13:39] enabling yeah right. I'm not going to stand by and watch you fucking kill yourself yeah
[01:13:44] yeah I need to fucking step back for the safety of our kids for the safety myself
[01:13:48] and for your safety hopefully you find a way and because like and what did he
[01:13:53] he's been to rehab a couple times there's a lot of like sayings and things that are common I'm
[01:13:58] sure but like he had said the only way this ends is somebody dies. Jails institutions are
[01:14:04] death yeah there it is yeah yeah those were exactly that was thank you for correcting me
[01:14:09] that was exactly what he said yeah so I'm sure that's language that's common and also
[01:14:14] 100% accurate it is like that is actually only where it ends. Look at what I said I said if I
[01:14:19] was still out there yeah I'd either be dead or out stealing these bikes or whatever right.
[01:14:24] Yeah so his last one he said to me he was talking to me about it and he said
[01:14:30] I knew the risks I knew the consequences I knew what was going to happen I knew all of those
[01:14:38] things and a five dollar bottle of vodka and then I cut him off and said goddamn America
[01:14:44] with their cheap I did I did cut him off to say that but but then we moved on and he
[01:14:51] yeah like he said a five dollar bottle of vodka yeah is what this why I'm here today and I
[01:14:58] said well no I said how many bottles of whatever have brought you here today but I
[01:15:03] understand what you're like I understand I said I understand the context of what you're
[01:15:06] saying five dollar bottle put him over that was that threshold that was the last straw yeah
[01:15:11] yeah absolutely no well no and because he said I thought I would break he said he was he was
[01:15:17] crying and he said like I thought I would be the first one to break the cycle in my family
[01:15:22] I thought and I said well the cycle is not too late it's not too late yeah I just said
[01:15:26] that to him I just said like well it's not over yeah still here yeah but like I also said
[01:15:31] after that like nothing I'm gonna say to you is gonna make you feel any better in this
[01:15:35] moment so it gives a fuck yeah but I'm gonna say it anyways because I love you and like whether
[01:15:39] you want to hear it or not I don't give a shit yeah but like you're gonna hear it yeah and then
[01:15:43] we'll move on yeah and I just said the cycle's not over you're still here you're not dead
[01:15:51] his mom and dad are helping him through this his mom left his dad because of his drinking
[01:15:55] problems okay and they're both working together to help him figure this out yeah and like he
[01:16:01] went from this great job this great career this beautiful family like the picturesque everything
[01:16:08] he's renting a room in someone's house right now making 17 dollars an hour at a job because
[01:16:13] he can't his license has been suspended yeah well you know like what a fucking fall from grace
[01:16:19] like but but I'm sure you've heard this story yeah a million times over yeah we do need to
[01:16:28] fall down to get back up again yeah yeah so I hope he gets up yeah and and that's all we can do
[01:16:35] right like we can be there to helping hand so what can I do you're doing everything okay yeah
[01:16:41] tell him fucking straight yeah don't love what I'm doing I'm loving him and not bullshitting
[01:16:46] I couldn't think of a better fucking person to be his support to be honest because I'll just
[01:16:51] fucking no no because because you you aren't a guy that beats around the bush yeah right
[01:17:01] yes you don't understand yeah the entirety of what he's going through no I don't have a clue
[01:17:05] but he needs that fucking no bullshit friend yeah right because now his his supports left him
[01:17:11] his family's left him yeah yeah you know he's got nobody right he's got you and you're
[01:17:17] gonna fucking tell him straight when I got clean my first sponsor never fucking held my hand
[01:17:22] never he would never tell me everything's gonna be okay yeah because I would have fucking
[01:17:26] manipulated him too yeah of course yeah yeah right yeah like no I'm so sad oh my life is
[01:17:33] falling apart oh it's okay yeah I got this motherfucker now he's feeling sorry for me yeah
[01:17:37] yeah no I personally always and like I have a very addictive personality I never
[01:17:42] have fallen that deep into the hole but I love straight shooters yeah like call me out on the
[01:17:51] bullshit because yeah like you said if you're gonna sympathize sympathize sympathize with me
[01:18:01] your English has been great today no it actually has been I'm going to take an advantage of
[01:18:06] you yeah right yeah absolutely and that's why I talked about that earlier yeah that's why I
[01:18:11] love you and I love you too and like I have very close friends one of our previous guests Glenn
[01:18:17] Damon too he told me straight up when I tried to start my business is like well you gotta quit
[01:18:21] this you gotta quit this you gotta stop having fun you need to focus on this shit you want it
[01:18:25] to be successful you gotta do this is what it takes yeah and and I love that because
[01:18:30] I am one of those people I'm a lazy guy yeah sorry I'm a comfortable guy I like my
[01:18:35] comfort yeah and I need that kick in my ass sometimes to to get up and fucking do my shit
[01:18:41] right so I really appreciate that I love that from my friends that tell me honestly what they
[01:18:46] think I don't beat around the bush and some people might not know that they that's what
[01:18:52] they need yeah so you know like your your buddy there like I think it's a good thing
[01:18:57] that I'm not sure if he reached out or you reached out to him it was actually strange I saw
[01:19:02] it doesn't matter but I was on his I have his wife on Facebook I have him on Facebook blah blah
[01:19:09] but I saw like his wife had posted a bunch of pictures on Facebook and he wasn't in any of them
[01:19:15] okay and I was like that's weird yeah yeah like everything for a reason yeah something didn't it
[01:19:21] was a significant event at their church like some fucking Passover Christian thing yeah and
[01:19:25] I was like oh he's not in any of these photos that seems weird so I just texted him I said
[01:19:30] hey man I noticed your wife posted these photos and you're not in any of them so like
[01:19:37] just checking in everything all right and he's like he he responded and was like it's crazy
[01:19:43] you text me that today I'm literally having the worst day I've ever had in my entire life he's
[01:19:48] like I'm actually at the bottom and like wrote me a thing we texted back and forth a bunch I
[01:19:53] said hey man I'm not here to push but like if you want to have a conversation you tell
[01:19:57] me when and like I'm available yeah I also said just for the record because some of the things
[01:20:01] he said were uh they were a little bit scary in sense of like uh they were teasing things that
[01:20:09] lead to problems like self-harm stuff and so I I don't fuck I don't fuck with that yeah and
[01:20:14] so I just said to him I said also whether you're at risk or not for this uh you now
[01:20:20] have to respond to everything I say to you and whenever I say it yeah and so I said I'm
[01:20:25] going to text you whenever I feel like it and I don't care if you want to talk you don't have
[01:20:29] to talk to me but you have to say something yeah so you can say k you can say okay you can say
[01:20:34] yep I don't give a fuck but you're responsible to respond to whatever I text you within 20
[01:20:40] minutes yeah and so I just said I don't even care how you feel about this this is what we're
[01:20:44] doing yeah yeah no and so maybe he is you know how we mentioned with uh Brendan how he
[01:20:52] was hoping to um he wouldn't contact any of his friends let's see who will reach out to me yeah
[01:21:00] right and maybe he's at that stage too that like well I think he's feeling a lot of shame
[01:21:04] yeah I think he's feeling a ton of shame yeah and so like for me like I always I'm a very
[01:21:11] visual person so I got to visualize things to understand them so I've created my addiction
[01:21:15] to be this you know like in in old western movies the sheriff's office with this drunken
[01:21:20] cell in the middle of the room that's my head and so my addiction is a monster and I'm the sheriff
[01:21:28] yeah okay so this monster all day just beaks at me yeah all fucking day most days I'm just like
[01:21:34] shut up go to sleep yeah you know like you're not coming out sometimes it gets you're not
[01:21:38] coming but sometimes he just he's hey how you doing today you know he's nice he's pleasant
[01:21:44] and we have a conversation and everything's okay and then he convinces me to let him out just
[01:21:49] to play cards he won't leave promises he won't leave yeah and he can't fucking leave because
[01:21:53] he's in my fucking head yeah right and and so I let him out to play cards and then he starts
[01:22:00] winning now I'm getting frustrated and this is addiction winning in my life right this is where
[01:22:06] my life starts becoming unmanageable yeah and and that's where the problem is is we make our
[01:22:11] lives unmanageable right and and any any 12-step group that is step one that
[01:22:22] we became powerless over our addiction yeah that our lives had become unmanageable
[01:22:27] it's two parts right so it's for me when I got clean it was sitting in the fucking hospital
[01:22:35] right because I wanted to kill myself but then I'm going shit if I quit drinking now you
[01:22:39] know like seeing all this unmanageability as a result of my addiction yeah and feeling that
[01:22:44] weight lifting off my shoulder like everything is going to be okay I just need to get help for my
[01:22:47] addictions right and if you don't see that unmanageability you're not gonna you're not
[01:22:55] going to want to get clean you're not going to want to get the help yeah and that's that's
[01:22:59] what I see so often right and and with that comes and and again no no disrespect to your
[01:23:06] friend and no disrespect to people who are truly truly truly struggling with mental health and
[01:23:12] suicide ideation stuff is manipulation with through yeah through suicidal of course right
[01:23:18] because that is truly how we feel in that moment well we truly feel like we want to
[01:23:22] edit take them lightly no absolutely not it's not worth the risk right and so when I got
[01:23:28] clean I spent three days in my fucking head going like visualizing myself trying to kill myself
[01:23:37] like yeah I was a chef at the time I worked with fucking knives and I was visualing me
[01:23:41] opening up my fucking knife fold and right in the middle of the kitchen I worked at and just
[01:23:45] start fucking cutting to kill right yeah and at first it was just kind of like oh that
[01:23:50] was kind of strange but then it got more and more real in my head right and and I went to
[01:23:55] the hospital because I was like fuck this is not okay like I am not okay at all and
[01:24:03] and I was there for five hours before I started realizing all these
[01:24:07] things as a result of my addiction right and then everything felt okay
[01:24:12] I just needed to put in that work to get the help for my addiction yeah so I have one more
[01:24:17] question so if and I just want your honest input like absolutely he's clearly having the hardest
[01:24:27] time he's ever felt he's had in his life we were talking the other day for two hours almost
[01:24:35] he was drinking yeah is there something I should do with that situation should I say I'm not
[01:24:43] talking to you if you're drinking should I say like you know what man if you're drinking
[01:24:46] or if you're drunk right now like we can't talk yeah is that actually the right thing
[01:24:50] because I just like because at one point he asked me he's like he's like oh what are you
[01:24:54] sipping on because I always got cubes clicking and also it's your problem not mine like don't
[01:24:59] whatever you said that to me right at the beginning of our friendship and but it's it
[01:25:05] doesn't mean I don't love and I don't care and I'm not sensitive to it's just like
[01:25:08] I'm here to support but like not like that yeah absolutely and so should I have just like
[01:25:15] because he told me he'd been drinking and blah blah and then I like wanted to talk about it with
[01:25:19] him and I'm like okay well like is this the plan for this week or is this the plan for this
[01:25:26] month like yeah listen I know this is heavy it all sucks and like you're doing your thing
[01:25:31] and like I'm not here to tell you what to do but like what where's the end game on this
[01:25:38] plan right and that's what that's what I asked but like is the right thing to do just
[01:25:41] be like oh you're drinking let's talk when you're not yeah that feels dismissive to me
[01:25:47] and sort of yeah is that a me problem is that just me feeling that is because because so in that
[01:25:54] situation that is my monster is out of the cage he's got me fucking tied up to a chair
[01:26:00] and gagged yeah and now you're talking to the monster it's not me answering you from
[01:26:05] not actually having yeah okay you know interesting okay the monster quiet it's it's not that it's
[01:26:13] the monster is the one fucking answering you how do you say that I don't know uh and I say
[01:26:17] everything pretty straightforward but I couldn't even handle that one right was like I didn't
[01:26:21] know what to do yeah no which is why I'm asking you right now like I I literally didn't know
[01:26:26] I felt so much guilt about I felt an inclination to say like oh this isn't the
[01:26:32] right time to have a real conversation about this essentially but I felt so much guilt about
[01:26:37] that because he's so sad and he's having such a hard time and I love him and it's like
[01:26:44] I didn't know what to do I actually just had no idea what to do so I just figured
[01:26:48] if I can have them on the phone and have a conversation that's probably okay would it help
[01:26:52] to just tell them listen to this episode well we'll get there but yeah because like I mean
[01:26:58] yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
[01:27:02] but like he's I'm gonna talk to him in a day for sure yeah yeah I think what do I do in that
[01:27:07] scenario I think or what do you think I should do sorry well at the end of the day again you're
[01:27:11] not talking to him you're talking to you're talking to the beast yeah yeah okay and so
[01:27:15] you're you're you can sit on the phone and just humor him but any advice you give him is
[01:27:23] you're just giving that monster yeah advice right and that monster just like taking it
[01:27:27] just going oh this is what do we want to do so I know now he's gonna fight it fight
[01:27:32] how not to do that yeah yeah okay so I mean at the end of the day like that's still your
[01:27:39] homie that's still your buddy you know like and you still love him and you can be there
[01:27:44] for him it's just I think like redirecting the conversation when it starts getting towards
[01:27:49] like anything I need help or anything like that it's just like okay buddy you know like we'll talk
[01:27:54] about that tomorrow like after you so keep it like I can talk to him he's my friend but
[01:27:59] like let's not try and come up with solutions here plans yeah because you're not ready to
[01:28:03] take on plans yeah because we talked about like lawyers and divorce and all this stuff and
[01:28:07] I was like and then I realized I'm like oh you're like you're drunk yeah and so like
[01:28:13] those are sober conversations like let's talk about the hockey game cool yeah and like how we
[01:28:18] used to play music together like that sounds fun absolutely like is that okay to do that is for
[01:28:22] sure that is yeah okay because you're still showing them there you're that you're that I love him and
[01:28:27] care and I'm here yeah but like let's not but you're not making any progress yeah you definitely
[01:28:33] aren't like you're distracting the monster right yeah yeah okay no that's that's like
[01:28:37] unbelievably valuable yeah and this is going to be the next however many months of my life
[01:28:44] trying to love him enough through this and like I'm not going to fix it I'm not going to do shit
[01:28:50] but like no I love him and I want to be there and so that's where the problem is
[01:28:56] and that's where the problem is is like we want to help somebody that we're willing to
[01:29:01] put our own fucking personal values out yeah to try to help that person and we have to take
[01:29:06] care of us first like this whole fucking series that you guys do is all about let's take care
[01:29:11] of us yeah right yeah because if we're not okay we can't help anybody yeah and you get severe
[01:29:17] burnout from trying to help an addict who doesn't want help I can only imagine yeah like
[01:29:22] severe fucking burnout yeah and like well because just beating your head into a wall
[01:29:27] yeah yeah yeah absolutely yeah if I if you're willing I'd love to send me his contact
[01:29:34] because like as I'm going through this with him because I'm committed to him and I love
[01:29:39] him and so I just there may be moments where I could use a little more reality check absolutely
[01:29:46] yeah yeah now it just uh I think we're getting towards the end of the episode but um is it is
[01:29:53] it like would you recommend anything for uh for him to do to get on the right path like
[01:30:02] you know like you've talked about getting a sponsor getting into recovery groups or
[01:30:07] obviously rehab is expensive so um are there any uh cheap easy
[01:30:14] methods let's say uh to to get on the right path get that first step yeah yeah
[01:30:20] ultimately you have to forget everything you know about living yeah yeah and be willing to like
[01:30:26] be willing to um change your knowledge of you know how to fucking live because you clearly
[01:30:33] don't yeah right you're fucking you went from having a beautiful home to a career to you know
[01:30:41] a beautiful family and stuff like that to renting a fucking room yeah right making a just a fraction
[01:30:47] of what you used to make it was just a big crash yeah and and like you said over a five
[01:30:52] dollar bottle of vodka right multiple five dollars it didn't lead up to it over a number
[01:30:58] that was definitely right of you to say yeah you know like um because it's not just one bottle
[01:31:04] it is it is multiple things and it's we often downplay it as addicts will downplay it to oh
[01:31:10] it was that last one the one I got caught for yeah right yeah not the previous 30 that were
[01:31:15] before that it was the one right before if I didn't have that last one I wouldn't be in
[01:31:20] this situation no you would you would but that's the monster that's the absolutely yeah
[01:31:25] so it's like that episode of Seinfeld where George does everything the opposite yeah yeah yeah yeah
[01:31:31] where he's like I've been doing everything wrong my whole life and he goes absolute opposite of
[01:31:36] everything he thinks he should and his life turns out great yeah yeah and and that's that's
[01:31:40] what I've been thinking about while you've been talking about this and that is oh that's
[01:31:43] what you have to do that is that is so hard yeah it is it really is because um
[01:31:50] like even becoming successful in business and stuff like that like I had to fucking
[01:31:54] let go of any idea that I knew what that I what I was doing yeah right yeah and be willing willing
[01:32:00] oh willing is such a hard thing right you got the hope from the other people you have the
[01:32:05] willingness to do the work yeah and then or the being honest with yourself and others around you
[01:32:14] right being open-minded to hear what the options are and then being willing to do those
[01:32:20] options to take action yeah taking action is everything right and no matter how hard things
[01:32:26] can get your worst day in recovery is still better than your best day in active addiction
[01:32:32] oh I like that yeah there's a title of the episode all right well dude thank you so much
[01:32:39] for this um honestly like we had a funny experience last time we had a show together
[01:32:45] and this was a pleasure and um I really appreciate your your being candid with us and for sure
[01:32:51] exposing that and being honest because I think unless we hear it from people that are going
[01:32:57] through what you go through yeah we never learn shit yeah well the reality is is I'll listen
[01:33:02] to somebody like me before I listen to somebody in a suit and tie yeah yeah and so for sure
[01:33:07] thank you for being here to do that with us I really do appreciate it thank you I really
[01:33:11] really love talking to people like yourself one of my best friends from Slovakia he lives
[01:33:19] in England now um he quit drinking one day because simple fact he didn't like himself
[01:33:27] when he was drunk and um you know I would go back visit him and I would show up with a case
[01:33:34] of non-alcoholic beers and he's like dude you don't have to um do that yeah I was like I love
[01:33:41] to do that like yourself you know that honestly you are like I take my sober octobers and then
[01:33:46] I drink these uh non-alcoholic beers but you're the other person that drink these and
[01:33:51] and uh I want to keep these in my house because if you show up in my door I want to be able
[01:33:55] to offer you a beer um and and enjoy it with you and just uh thank you for for being you man and
[01:34:04] thanks for being our friend and a friend of the show and I can't thank you enough to
[01:34:11] share your story man it's uh well thanks for giving me the opportunity for sure anytime
[01:34:17] come back anytime you want yeah don't say that because I fucking look at how many times
[01:34:21] I came back to the other podcast you came back after well you probably meta-checked if I was there
[01:34:26] or not so yeah we got one of these cups for you as well um you know please enjoy your coffee
[01:34:33] tea and non-alcoholic beers yeah and uh just be coffee what's that what's that that non-alcoholic
[01:34:40] so soul brew I think that we tried it yeah at the other show no yeah it was uh yeah
[01:34:47] and honestly like that was really fucking good it's it's one of those things that like as soon
[01:34:52] as I put it on ice I had really enjoyed it yeah it fooled it fooled me man yeah I'm good
[01:34:58] but uh no thank you very much for joining us again and uh to anybody that's struggling with
[01:35:04] addiction um dag I'm gonna throw your tag you in um in our pod script as well uh and uh
[01:35:12] reach out to to me tim or or dag if you guys are struggling with anything uh whether it's alcohol
[01:35:19] drugs please reach out uh this guy's a pro he's been cleaning clean almost 11 years and uh
[01:35:28] just congratulations man and keep up the good work I love that you can hang out with two
[01:35:34] guys that drink tons of whiskey and still have a good time and yeah uh that's where it comes
[01:35:39] down to uh follow us on instagram and facebook quiet riot show and send us an email if you if
[01:35:45] you don't want to message us directly just want to send us an email it's a quiet riot show at
[01:35:51] gmail.com and yeah just uh hope you guys enjoyed it as much as I did thanks again dag
[01:35:57] I really appreciate it thanks man cheers all quiet riot show episodes have been recorded
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