"Overcoming Addiction" with Dag Aymont

[00:00:00] And that's where the problem is, is like we want to help somebody that we're willing to put our own fucking personal values out

[00:00:06] Yeah to try to help that person and we have to take care of us first

[00:00:10] Like this whole fucking series that you guys do is all about let's take care of us

[00:00:15] Yeah, right. Yeah, because if we're not okay, we can't help anybody

[00:00:19] Yeah, and you get severe burnout from trying to help an addict who doesn't want help. I can only imagine

[00:00:37] Welcome back everybody to the next episode

[00:00:39] What are you doing? Puking? Burping?

[00:00:48] Yeah, sorry, it's the wings. I gotta restart that. I have to restart that again. I was like oh something's coming

[00:00:54] You're leaving it in for the record.

[00:00:56] Alright, alright, well I'm glad we got together again here

[00:01:00] Today's episode I know we've done a lot of stuff

[00:01:06] Well, I'm glad we got together again here

[00:01:10] Today's episode I know we've done this before on a different show

[00:01:18] The three of us have sat on mics in a room together. It was very different

[00:01:22] It was very different but we did discuss the same topic we're going to be talking about today

[00:01:28] But it's going to be more

[00:01:34] I think a little different

[00:01:36] Yeah, it'll be a little more

[00:01:38] I mean we're laughing right now

[00:01:42] Laughing is good though, that's okay. I just won't make some of the same jokes I made last time

[00:01:48] You know laughter is definitely a healer at least for me

[00:01:54] If we can joke about things then life's pretty fucked up then

[00:01:58] I think all three of us can operate on that mentality

[00:02:04] And I know you've talked about it on your podcast in the past

[00:02:08] That if I'm not making fun of you, that means we're not friends

[00:02:12] And like true, my closest friends, we say probably the meanest shit to each other

[00:02:18] My daughter brings that up sometimes. She's like, you guys are so mean to each other

[00:02:24] I'm like that's because we love each other

[00:02:26] I was like, Autumn if anyone comes over here and I'm not making jokes with them

[00:02:30] You don't talk to that person

[00:02:32] That's probably not someone who's going to come over here much

[00:02:34] That's not how my life operates

[00:02:36] 100%

[00:02:38] I think in the end it's all just a mask to bury down the real feelings we want to talk about

[00:02:44] But that's why we do this

[00:02:46] I'm not going to quote word to word this comedian but he talked about

[00:02:50] Also I'm not trying to shit on women

[00:02:52] But this comedian was saying, my best buddy, I'm going to call him out

[00:03:00] You're a fat piece of shit

[00:03:02] You've put on weight man

[00:03:04] You're getting fat

[00:03:06] Behind his back I will raise him up

[00:03:12] He's the best guy

[00:03:14] But not to his face

[00:03:16] And then the comedian goes, and women?

[00:03:18] And I'm like, oh my god that is so true

[00:03:22] Some, some

[00:03:24] Super funny

[00:03:26] There's some truth to it

[00:03:28] It's a little more

[00:03:30] The way we do it is very, I would say more common with men

[00:03:36] And then the way they do it is more common with females

[00:03:38] Yeah, I call you some names

[00:03:40] You call me some names and I know it's with love

[00:03:42] Whereas if our wives called each other like that

[00:03:46] We'd never, I wouldn't be allowed to hang out with you anymore

[00:03:50] I would have to drop a client

[00:03:52] You'd lose me as a client

[00:03:54] 100%

[00:03:56] And we wouldn't be able to do the show anymore

[00:03:58] So, but okay, so all joking aside

[00:04:00] I'd like to welcome our next guest

[00:04:04] Dag Amont

[00:04:06] I've met you, Jesus Christ, a few years ago

[00:04:12] Quite a few

[00:04:14] Years ago

[00:04:16] But I'll never forget

[00:04:18] I know I was very drunk

[00:04:20] I was so drunk

[00:04:22] And I'm like, yeah man, let's go have some beers

[00:04:24] Let's have a drink

[00:04:26] And he's like, man, I don't drink

[00:04:28] I'm like, what the fuck's wrong with you

[00:04:30] But I don't know why he still talks to me to this day

[00:04:34] I don't know why I still talk to you

[00:04:36] But I'm sure I came off as an asshole

[00:04:38] But people call me the lovable asshole when I'm drunk

[00:04:42] People, okay

[00:04:44] Do you have a list of these people?

[00:04:46] It's just people

[00:04:48] All I'm looking for is one name

[00:04:50] Yeah, we met at the pyramid

[00:04:52] At a show, I don't even know which show it was

[00:04:54] Hatebreed

[00:04:56] Was it Hatebreed? Yeah, okay

[00:04:58] Oh, that's right, yeah

[00:05:00] And yeah, so you remember more than I do

[00:05:02] That's because he doesn't drink

[00:05:04] That's one of the benefits of quitting drinking

[00:05:06] And detriments maybe

[00:05:08] Too much clarity

[00:05:10] Too much clarity

[00:05:12] And it's not like we became best friends right off the hop

[00:05:16] But you were part of the music industry

[00:05:18] I was just kind of getting into it

[00:05:22] And we've seen each other at shows

[00:05:25] And then yeah, eventually we just kind of

[00:05:27] I think we just started hanging out more and more

[00:05:29] And then I had a band

[00:05:31] We needed a bass player

[00:05:32] And this guy is one of the best bass players I know in the city

[00:05:35] Or outside of city, I guess

[00:05:37] Let's say outside of city

[00:05:40] Yeah, you've joined our band

[00:05:42] And we've become really good friends since then

[00:05:45] We did the Manitoba Loud Music Awards

[00:05:47] Which we can touch on that a little bit too

[00:05:50] Give yourself plugs all you want

[00:05:54] And Badlands Promotions has done so much for this

[00:05:58] For the Winnipeg music scene

[00:06:01] And I was for a very brief period

[00:06:03] I was part of it too

[00:06:05] And I loved every minute of it

[00:06:07] My life's too fucking busy

[00:06:09] It happens

[00:06:10] Welcome to our show

[00:06:12] Thanks for being here

[00:06:13] I'm glad we're going to

[00:06:15] We're going to kind of unwrap this

[00:06:19] Bad habit of yours that you had

[00:06:21] And we currently have

[00:06:24] Whoa, whoa, whoa

[00:06:26] Okay, habit, I'm just going to say habit

[00:06:28] Save your judgment

[00:06:29] Bad or good

[00:06:32] But I know you

[00:06:34] I didn't know you when you struggled with addiction

[00:06:38] Substance abuse, alcohol and all that

[00:06:41] I've only heard stories from you

[00:06:44] And I think today we'd like to kind of

[00:06:47] Take a deep dive on that

[00:06:49] On that time period of your life

[00:06:52] That you went through those struggles

[00:06:54] And kind of what helped you get out of it

[00:06:57] And what happened after that

[00:07:01] But yeah

[00:07:02] I'm sure you listen to every episode that we put out

[00:07:05] Oh, absolutely

[00:07:07] I definitely didn't just tune in on my way out here

[00:07:11] We do a check-in at every show

[00:07:13] And it's just a little scale that Tim kind of

[00:07:16] Introduced to the show from his own experience

[00:07:22] To kind of know where we're at right now

[00:07:32] That's right, so

[00:07:34] One being you're feeling absolutely shitty

[00:07:37] Ten, you're super happy

[00:07:39] And nothing can get in your way

[00:07:42] Tim, why don't you start it off?

[00:07:45] Uh, okay

[00:07:47] No, I think I'm like a

[00:07:49] Six and a half

[00:07:51] Okay

[00:07:52] Maybe even a seven almost

[00:07:54] That's good

[00:07:56] I'll give some context

[00:07:58] This is a

[00:08:00] A, I've had a really long day

[00:08:04] Welcome to my life

[00:08:06] Me too

[00:08:08] B, we did record an episode

[00:08:10] This is a two episode day

[00:08:12] Yeah, it is a two episode day

[00:08:14] Because as I mentioned in the previous episode

[00:08:16] That I am currently in Europe

[00:08:18] If you're listening to this right now

[00:08:20] So this is a two episode day

[00:08:22] Where we're building up some

[00:08:24] And we had some time and people were available

[00:08:26] So I always get so

[00:08:28] It's strange to do

[00:08:30] A show

[00:08:32] That tends to cover

[00:08:34] Some heavy subject matter

[00:08:36] Not always, it's not meant to do that

[00:08:38] It just, we want to

[00:08:40] You said deep dive Tommy

[00:08:42] And that's a great way to put it

[00:08:44] We want to deep dive and like

[00:08:46] Generally when you deep dive with people

[00:08:48] That comes with some heavy things

[00:08:50] I actually feel

[00:08:52] Better because of it

[00:08:54] It's our last guest

[00:08:56] That we had on the last show

[00:08:58] Which was Tommy McGuire

[00:09:00] His episode will come out whenever

[00:09:02] It's already out

[00:09:04] Or it's already out or whatever

[00:09:06] I'm really bad at this side of the thing

[00:09:10] He said when we were done

[00:09:12] And when we turned the mics off

[00:09:14] He said, hey guys thanks for the therapy session

[00:09:16] There's some truth to that

[00:09:18] I feel that every time we do this

[00:09:20] I love that and I know I say it

[00:09:22] Every goddamn episode

[00:09:24] I can't stress enough

[00:09:26] How important

[00:09:28] This is to me

[00:09:30] What we do here

[00:09:32] On these mics and the people that

[00:09:34] Are so gratefully

[00:09:36] Willing to share with us

[00:09:38] I can't tell you

[00:09:40] How much it's appreciated

[00:09:42] And how much it does for me

[00:09:44] As a person and in my soul

[00:09:46] I was a 6.5, 2 hours ago

[00:09:48] And now I'm a 7

[00:09:50] I tend to not move above a 7

[00:09:52] I'm kind of feeling as good as I normally feel

[00:09:54] Which to me is a huge win

[00:09:56] I'm glad I could bring that out

[00:09:58] Thank you

[00:10:04] I lost my thought

[00:10:06] I wanted to say something on

[00:10:08] What you were saying

[00:10:10] But that's okay

[00:10:12] It'll come back to me

[00:10:14] But I agree with you

[00:10:16] It was such a good conversation

[00:10:18] And even though listeners

[00:10:20] Two weeks later

[00:10:22] Just from two hours ago

[00:10:24] The conversations we've had

[00:10:26] With our previous guest

[00:10:28] Was absolutely fantastic

[00:10:30] I was really excited

[00:10:32] Even before the show

[00:10:34] To talk about parenthood

[00:10:36] Because I think there are

[00:10:38] Way too many dads that are struggling

[00:10:40] And we've touched on that

[00:10:42] That we don't necessarily talk about our feelings

[00:10:44] Because our priory has

[00:10:46] Kind of shifted towards

[00:10:48] Not just our relationship

[00:10:50] But now it's that child

[00:10:52] And then we focus on the mom

[00:10:54] And then our relationship

[00:10:56] And then our styles

[00:10:58] Tommy had said a few times

[00:11:00] This is when I need to put myself in the back seat

[00:11:02] I'm paraphrasing

[00:11:04] But this is when my needs aren't as important

[00:11:06] Those are real moments

[00:11:08] And that's a real thing

[00:11:10] There are moments in life

[00:11:12] Where your needs just

[00:11:14] Aren't as important as others

[00:11:16] Yeah, and so just having those conversations

[00:11:20] Right away my mind

[00:11:22] Kind of started going

[00:11:24] I'm like, holy shit, yeah that's right

[00:11:26] This is important

[00:11:28] So it's something that I'm taking from that episode

[00:11:30] And I'm going to apply now to myself

[00:11:32] My relationship with my wife

[00:11:34] And my relationship with my kids as well

[00:11:36] So I'm already feeling better

[00:11:38] From two hours ago

[00:11:40] So I'm gonna go with a solid 8

[00:11:42] Nice, that's awesome

[00:11:44] I think I was 8 and a half

[00:11:46] Because I think I was an 8 before

[00:11:48] So yeah, definitely moved that bracket up a little bit

[00:11:50] And I love these

[00:11:52] Oh, I know what I want to say

[00:11:54] So I love these pre-recording shows

[00:11:56] We kind of have to bang it out

[00:11:58] So it sucks because it is a heavy day

[00:12:00] But we're taking in so much information now all at once

[00:12:04] What sucks to me

[00:12:06] Is

[00:12:08] Because you mentioned it's kind of like a therapy

[00:12:10] Yeah

[00:12:12] So I was like, I'm gonna do this

[00:12:14] I was gone for actually 5 weeks

[00:12:16] And then

[00:12:18] Started redoing everything in the studio

[00:12:20] So we didn't record for like

[00:12:22] I think over 2 months

[00:12:24] And I was actually missing that

[00:12:26] We just need to record an episode

[00:12:28] So I can kind of get this

[00:12:30] I gotta get some shit off my chest

[00:12:32] Yeah, exactly

[00:12:34] I love this

[00:12:36] And I really hope our listeners get the same thing out of this

[00:12:38] And if you do please let us know

[00:12:40] I love hearing any feedback from this

[00:12:44] Love it

[00:12:46] Dag

[00:12:48] Generally I'm an 8 or 9

[00:12:52] That's very accurate

[00:12:54] I don't see you

[00:12:56] Necessarily

[00:12:58] Down or pissed

[00:13:00] If I see you pissed off

[00:13:02] It's kind of like a temporary thing

[00:13:04] There's a reason and you know how to handle it

[00:13:06] And that's taken a lot of practice

[00:13:08] It's taken a lot of like skills

[00:13:10] Life skills learning and stuff

[00:13:12] And yeah

[00:13:14] So generally

[00:13:16] I'm usually an 8 or 9

[00:13:18] I've learned how to reach out to people

[00:13:20] I've learned how to talk to people

[00:13:22] I've learned how to not hold in my emotions anymore

[00:13:24] Granted there is

[00:13:26] Dark points where I don't feel like

[00:13:28] Like I feel like that burden

[00:13:30] But those are so few

[00:13:32] And far between now

[00:13:34] That's great

[00:13:36] Right now I'm probably about a 9

[00:13:38] Nice

[00:13:40] I don't even know if I've ever been a 9

[00:13:42] It's amazing you should try it sometime

[00:13:44] I think I was there

[00:13:46] That's a 7 for me

[00:13:48] Can't you see how happy he is

[00:13:52] Excellent

[00:13:56] So you guys have known each other

[00:13:58] For a number of years

[00:14:00] 2018 I think

[00:14:02] Yeah

[00:14:04] I think we've met way before that

[00:14:06] But I think 2018 is when

[00:14:08] We actually

[00:14:10] Can consider each other friends

[00:14:12] Yeah

[00:14:14] So Dag do you want to maybe

[00:14:16] You've got a

[00:14:18] I'm sure a long and very involved

[00:14:20] Story that is probably

[00:14:22] Unbelievably interesting

[00:14:24] Do you want to give us a bit of a snapshot

[00:14:26] Of what that looks like so we can kind of

[00:14:28] That will help us guide into

[00:14:30] Sort of what we want to

[00:14:32] Go through here today

[00:14:38] Introduced into

[00:14:40] I was raised in an alcoholic home

[00:14:42] Alcoholics and musicians

[00:14:44] And I was always surrounded by musicians

[00:14:46] And the fellowship that musicians bring

[00:14:48] That's what I

[00:14:50] Just got so high off that

[00:14:52] But unfortunately

[00:14:54] When you're 6 or 7 years old

[00:14:56] You associate that with alcohol

[00:14:58] That's what's around

[00:15:00] It kind of became the norm right?

[00:15:02] Yeah by 12 I was drinking

[00:15:04] I don't even remember my first drink

[00:15:06] I hear so many people tell their story

[00:15:08] And they're just like oh and I remember my first drink

[00:15:10] I don't remember when I had my first drink

[00:15:12] I just know an incident

[00:15:14] When I was 12 for sure

[00:15:16] That I was drinking

[00:15:18] And so by 12 I was drinking

[00:15:20] By 15 I was drinking every weekend

[00:15:22] And by 18 as a full blown alcoholic

[00:15:24] I dabbled in weed a little bit

[00:15:26] At 15 and it just

[00:15:28] It's not for me

[00:15:30] It gives me paranoia and anxiety

[00:15:32] And no matter what strain it is

[00:15:34] It just messes me up really bad

[00:15:36] And so it's not worth it for me

[00:15:38] But I hated drugs

[00:15:40] Like my whole life

[00:15:42] I hated drugs

[00:15:44] And then I hated what they did to my friends

[00:15:46] I hated what they did to my brother

[00:15:48] I hated like I seen my idols on stage

[00:15:50] I never wanted to be my idols like that right?

[00:15:52] And at 27

[00:15:54] I had gotten into drugs

[00:15:56] And pretty heavy too

[00:15:58] It was just like

[00:16:00] Do you want to name some of them?

[00:16:02] I was on coke mostly

[00:16:04] I really enjoyed mushrooms

[00:16:06] I was on ecstasy for a little while

[00:16:08] I always said that my bottoms

[00:16:10] Would be meth, crack and heroin

[00:16:12] I think those are

[00:16:14] Pretty valid bottoms

[00:16:16] I think that's fair

[00:16:18] And so 3 months before I got clean

[00:16:20] I had actually started

[00:16:22] I had done fentanyl patches

[00:16:24] I didn't have any drugs around

[00:16:26] Nobody had any in town

[00:16:28] What's a fentanyl patch?

[00:16:30] So it's a slow release

[00:16:32] Fentanyl is one of the

[00:16:34] Strongest

[00:16:36] Opioids

[00:16:38] And they have patches

[00:16:40] That sort of slow release

[00:16:42] Into your system

[00:16:44] How can you get your hands on?

[00:16:46] They prescribe them

[00:16:48] They are something that are prescribed

[00:16:50] You got to be

[00:16:52] In pretty serious

[00:16:54] Pain situation where you're beyond

[00:16:56] A lot of other

[00:16:58] Methods

[00:17:00] Of pain management as they would call it

[00:17:02] And the way my buddy was doing it

[00:17:04] Is he had cut up this patch into small little tabs

[00:17:06] And you'd just suck on it

[00:17:08] Fast track it

[00:17:10] Absolutely right, but they are just tiny tabs

[00:17:12] And I was like

[00:17:14] Well because you can OD on this shit

[00:17:16] That's the shit that's killing people

[00:17:18] So that's what

[00:17:20] That's part of the

[00:17:22] Epidemic of this fentanyl thing

[00:17:24] That it's so

[00:17:26] So potent

[00:17:28] And then we've got

[00:17:30] It's a whole thing, Chinese fentanyl coming in

[00:17:32] Which is worse in black market

[00:17:34] And not regulated

[00:17:36] And in China it's legal to produce it

[00:17:38] And it's probably not regulated

[00:17:40] It's a fucking nightmare

[00:17:42] Is what it is

[00:17:44] And so I spent

[00:17:46] Three days

[00:17:48] I was dope sick for three days

[00:17:50] And I was like, K, yeah

[00:17:52] I said I wasn't going to do opioids

[00:17:54] More specifically heroin

[00:17:56] But opioids is opioids

[00:17:58] It's kind of all the same

[00:18:00] Yeah, I don't understand why my friends are so hooked on it

[00:18:02] And all I did was nod off and puke all night

[00:18:04] Like it wasn't a good time

[00:18:06] And three months later

[00:18:08] I was doing heroin

[00:18:10] And only one night

[00:18:12] I had

[00:18:14] Said no to it until it was right in front of me

[00:18:16] It was beside me

[00:18:18] I said no

[00:18:20] My buddy moved it in front of me

[00:18:22] And like nothing I just snorted a fat line of heroin

[00:18:24] And the next day

[00:18:26] I went to a concert

[00:18:28] And

[00:18:30] I got clean

[00:18:32] The day after that

[00:18:34] And it wasn't because I was using heroin

[00:18:36] So I have no doubts in my mind

[00:18:38] That if I would have stayed in that world

[00:18:40] I'd be probably running around stealing bikes

[00:18:42] If I was even alive

[00:18:44] Yeah, exactly

[00:18:46] So, okay, so

[00:18:48] That's a very quick summary

[00:18:50] To what is probably a very in-depth

[00:18:52] story

[00:18:54] But it gives us some context

[00:18:56] So

[00:18:58] So you grew

[00:19:00] Up with alcohol around

[00:19:02] Probably some amount of drugs

[00:19:04] Maybe just weed or something

[00:19:06] And weed I would tend to argue

[00:19:08] Is or isn't a drug

[00:19:10] At the time

[00:19:12] At the time

[00:19:14] At the time, yeah

[00:19:16] And still

[00:19:18] You can abuse it

[00:19:20] It depends on how it's

[00:19:22] Any mind-altering substance that you do too much of

[00:19:24] Too often is a problem

[00:19:26] And weed and alcohol

[00:19:28] And cigarettes all fall into

[00:19:30] The same category

[00:19:32] My argument to that is like

[00:19:34] I don't smoke pot now

[00:19:36] But I've smoked my fair share

[00:19:38] And I've

[00:19:40] Smoked a lot of pot

[00:19:42] And I've never

[00:19:44] Blacked out from it

[00:19:46] Oh, I have

[00:19:48] Oh yeah, greened out? Oh, I've greened out, buddy

[00:19:50] I mean, I've

[00:19:52] And that's what happens to me every time

[00:19:54] Oh really? That's just your

[00:19:56] And the thing is maybe I didn't smoke enough

[00:19:58] But like I remember being Heisekite for hours

[00:20:00] And I still remember

[00:20:02] Every single thing I've done

[00:20:04] And to me, that was just like

[00:20:06] Alcohol's way worse

[00:20:08] Well, it is worse

[00:20:10] If we're ranking them

[00:20:12] It's worse

[00:20:14] By a mile it's worse

[00:20:16] Alcohol is definitely up there with crack and heroin and stuff, right?

[00:20:18] Yeah, just it's legal and everybody drinks it

[00:20:20] So it's acceptable

[00:20:22] And so, well even with

[00:20:24] Like my argument with weed is

[00:20:26] I've seen people become dependent on it

[00:20:28] Right?

[00:20:30] I can't function without it

[00:20:32] I also see the medicinal value in it

[00:20:34] Sure, of course

[00:20:36] I can see the recreational value in it

[00:20:38] You know, like I see all sides of it

[00:20:40] I don't think alcohol has a medicinal value

[00:20:42] No

[00:20:44] No

[00:20:46] And so weed does

[00:20:48] Beer does

[00:20:50] It's good for your kidneys

[00:20:52] Is it really because

[00:20:54] No

[00:20:56] It's actually

[00:20:58] It flushes the kidneys actually

[00:21:00] Well you piss a lot when you drink it

[00:21:02] So maybe that's a thing

[00:21:04] And it's good for skin as well

[00:21:06] That's why they have beer baths

[00:21:08] I have so many jokes I want to make

[00:21:10] But it's the wrong show

[00:21:12] Okay, so you grew up

[00:21:14] Around it

[00:21:16] So you would have had probably a different experience

[00:21:18] With alcohol and drugs than

[00:21:20] Most would

[00:21:22] Or then lots would

[00:21:24] Maybe not most but lots

[00:21:26] For sure different than mine

[00:21:28] I grew up in a home where those things were going to

[00:21:30] You're going to hell if you touch them

[00:21:32] And then I went to the LC with my dad the other day

[00:21:34] So that was interesting

[00:21:36] He clearly

[00:21:38] Changes his tune

[00:21:40] So would you

[00:21:42] Say that that probably had put you

[00:21:44] In a position to

[00:21:48] Be susceptible to the level

[00:21:50] Of intensity that your alcoholism

[00:21:52] And your drug addictions were

[00:21:54] Or became

[00:21:56] Like I said

[00:21:58] The fellowship that

[00:22:00] The music brought

[00:22:02] Music does that

[00:22:04] Six or seven years old sitting on my mom's lap

[00:22:06] At three o'clock in the morning while all of her friends

[00:22:08] Are sitting around smoking cigarettes drinking beer

[00:22:10] Doing whatever else

[00:22:12] But they're all playing music

[00:22:14] They're all playing guitars and singing

[00:22:16] And having a great time

[00:22:18] The energy in the room

[00:22:20] It's romanticized

[00:22:22] Unfortunately those things were tied to it

[00:22:24] But I thought

[00:22:26] I tied that to it

[00:22:28] You're going to get that when you drink as well

[00:22:30] Right?

[00:22:32] Also

[00:22:34] Having my mom

[00:22:36] Dismiss some of my feelings when I was

[00:22:38] Little

[00:22:40] Unintentionally she never did it on purpose

[00:22:42] It's just

[00:22:44] She grew up in a home where you didn't talk about feelings

[00:22:46] So I was just like

[00:22:48] I was a very soft kid, very sensitive

[00:22:50] I just wanted to love and be loved

[00:22:52] And that was it, learn and grow

[00:22:54] And being somebody

[00:22:56] With an original name

[00:22:58] And

[00:23:00] Being a kid with undiagnosed

[00:23:02] ADHD

[00:23:04] And

[00:23:06] I got bullied

[00:23:08] A lot

[00:23:10] So I didn't understand watching my friends getting bullied

[00:23:12] I didn't understand watching myself get bullied

[00:23:14] I didn't understand

[00:23:16] Violence or any of that stuff

[00:23:18] I just knew love

[00:23:20] Because my home was a loving home as well

[00:23:22] They never fought

[00:23:24] That's what I heard of

[00:23:30] But yeah

[00:23:32] I came home from school one day and I was just in tears

[00:23:34] And I said to my mom

[00:23:36] Why are kids mean?

[00:23:38] And she just kind of

[00:23:40] It's okay, you'll be okay

[00:23:42] But now that told me

[00:23:44] The one person who matters most to me

[00:23:46] The one persons whose opinion

[00:23:48] Means the most to me has just told me my feelings don't matter

[00:23:50] So then I'm bottling up feelings

[00:23:52] So between the two things

[00:23:54] It was

[00:23:56] Well you can bottle them up and then you drown them

[00:23:58] And then that's where we end up

[00:24:00] Well I think that

[00:24:02] I've always felt

[00:24:04] And I was actually saying it to our last guest

[00:24:06] Because he came from sort of a music background

[00:24:08] As well

[00:24:10] Or he did come from a music background as well

[00:24:12] I think that

[00:24:14] I noticed when we do this show

[00:24:16] When we do episodes

[00:24:18] When we do episodes with someone who's involved in music

[00:24:20] Or has a life in music

[00:24:22] Or plays music

[00:24:24] Or has been in a scene playing

[00:24:26] It's just

[00:24:28] It's a different show

[00:24:30] It's not like having an accountant sit across from me

[00:24:32] And work on

[00:24:34] Deep diving

[00:24:36] We're musicians

[00:24:38] All of us here are musicians

[00:24:40] Or have been

[00:24:42] We're comfortable with

[00:24:44] We're a lot more comfortable with emotions

[00:24:46] With exposing ourselves

[00:24:48] In that sense with talking about those things

[00:24:50] We're all way more comfortable

[00:24:52] Because music does that

[00:24:54] You write songs

[00:24:56] You express emotions and feelings

[00:24:58] You use the word fellowship

[00:25:00] There is no better word than fellowship

[00:25:02] For what music creates

[00:25:04] Unfortunately in your circumstance

[00:25:06] It came along with fellowship of things that weren't so good

[00:25:08] But

[00:25:10] That's what happened

[00:25:12] What was your

[00:25:14] So you said 18

[00:25:16] You were basically full blown

[00:25:18] Going for it

[00:25:20] Like you were just an alcoholic

[00:25:22] Drinking all the time

[00:25:24] How did that affect your life

[00:25:26] Your relationships, your friendships

[00:25:28] Were you playing music at that point?

[00:25:30] I was

[00:25:32] Attempting to

[00:25:34] I couldn't find the right people to play with

[00:25:36] Because

[00:25:38] Growing up in a small city

[00:25:40] I have about 2000 people where I live

[00:25:42] Where do you live?

[00:25:44] In Portis de Prairie

[00:25:46] And like

[00:25:48] A lot of the people who

[00:25:50] The people who

[00:25:52] Were in the punk music scene

[00:25:54] When I was growing up

[00:25:56] A lot of them

[00:25:58] The people who shared the same

[00:26:00] Lifestyle I did

[00:26:02] They moved away

[00:26:04] A lot of them went to Banff to go work

[00:26:06] There was a few

[00:26:08] Who didn't really party

[00:26:10] Like I did so I didn't really feel like

[00:26:12] I fit in with them

[00:26:14] And then so at like 19

[00:26:16] I started actually really getting involved in the music scene

[00:26:18] Like playing and stuff like that

[00:26:20] Okay

[00:26:22] So yeah

[00:26:24] It was just like I was already

[00:26:26] Fully into it and then I found a group of guys

[00:26:28] To play with

[00:26:30] And I played with them for

[00:26:32] I think 2 years

[00:26:34] Before everything blew up

[00:26:36] A little longer

[00:26:40] But yeah it was

[00:26:46] Getting on stage the first time

[00:26:48] After I got clean

[00:26:50] Was a million times better than

[00:26:52] Getting on stage the very first time

[00:26:54] Wow okay

[00:26:56] So

[00:26:58] Is that because you

[00:27:00] You were more aware of

[00:27:02] What's going on and I guess

[00:27:04] Your feelings

[00:27:06] You were taking in your

[00:27:08] Feelings what you were feeling almost like

[00:27:10] For the first time

[00:27:12] With a clean head right

[00:27:14] When I went into it

[00:27:16] Again I never wanted to be my idol

[00:27:18] So I was never going to drink on stage

[00:27:20] I was never going to do drugs or anything like that

[00:27:22] I didn't want to be

[00:27:24] Rolling around on the stage like Nicky Six

[00:27:26] And

[00:27:28] If I was rolling around it's because I'm having

[00:27:30] A great time or tumbled or something

[00:27:32] Yeah absolutely

[00:27:34] And I didn't

[00:27:36] Want to be those people so I wanted

[00:27:38] To be sober and

[00:27:40] After a little while

[00:27:42] I joined this band where like it was a drunk

[00:27:44] Jam band

[00:27:46] Where like we never jammed sober

[00:27:48] And it was just a jam band

[00:27:50] And then we ended up taking it a little more serious

[00:27:52] But we never played sober

[00:27:54] And I booked both bands in the same night

[00:27:56] For a show

[00:27:58] And the idea was

[00:28:00] Was that the sober band was going to play before

[00:28:02] The drunk band

[00:28:04] But we had to switch

[00:28:06] Roles so I had to be

[00:28:08] Drunk for the third

[00:28:10] Set of the night and then like

[00:28:12] Sober for the last set? That didn't even

[00:28:14] Make sense

[00:28:16] So I learned I could play

[00:28:18] Drunk and I always

[00:28:20] Did after that

[00:28:24] It caused ripples throughout the years

[00:28:26] My behaviors were

[00:28:30] Quite subpar

[00:28:32] If I was still

[00:28:34] In that

[00:28:36] World I was just telling somebody about

[00:28:38] This the other night if I was still in that world

[00:28:40] I would have been cancelled

[00:28:42] I would have been in that cancelled culture

[00:28:44] I would have been one of those people who were just like

[00:28:46] That motherfuckers not welcoming our scene

[00:28:48] Do you want to

[00:28:50] Elaborate on that a little bit?

[00:28:52] You don't have to go into

[00:28:54] Specific details but as in like

[00:28:58] Were you

[00:29:00] Hurting somebody?

[00:29:02] Not physically

[00:29:04] I was hurting relationships

[00:29:06] I'll say that

[00:29:10] I didn't care who I screwed over

[00:29:12] Basically

[00:29:14] I was making friends in the music scene

[00:29:16] Just to try to sleep with their wives

[00:29:18] Or something right?

[00:29:20] That's how horrible it was getting

[00:29:22] That was later on

[00:29:24] It got really bad later on with the drug use

[00:29:26] Stuff like that

[00:29:28] At the end of the day I didn't love myself

[00:29:30] I didn't care who I was going to fucking hurt

[00:29:32] How are you going to care about anybody else?

[00:29:34] Absolutely

[00:29:36] You were top priority

[00:29:38] I had myself convinced I loved these people

[00:29:40] And I do love them

[00:29:42] The real me does love them

[00:29:44] Way past the booze and everything like that

[00:29:46] That me did love those people

[00:29:48] And I still do to this day

[00:29:52] But I've had to make a lot of fucking amends to people

[00:29:54] Yeah

[00:29:56] Actually I was just thinking

[00:29:58] I'm going to throw this question in there

[00:30:00] Have you actually

[00:30:02] Hurt some people

[00:30:04] Where you went back and made peace

[00:30:06] Like hey sorry for

[00:30:08] Isn't that part of the

[00:30:10] Process?

[00:30:12] Yeah

[00:30:14] Do you still have that relationship now?

[00:30:16] So you had a relationship with someone

[00:30:18] You fucked them over

[00:30:20] And then now a few years later

[00:30:22] You kind of went back and be like

[00:30:24] Hey I'm sorry for that and you're continuing that relationship

[00:30:26] So funny story

[00:30:28] If that makes sense

[00:30:30] There was this band

[00:30:32] And I won't say their name

[00:30:34] But there was this band

[00:30:36] And the drummer and guitar player

[00:30:38] Husband and wife

[00:30:40] And they were just engaged at the time

[00:30:42] Or they were boyfriend and girlfriend

[00:30:44] And I got along with them really good

[00:30:46] They're nice people

[00:30:48] But my shitty addiction

[00:30:50] Caused me to message her

[00:30:52] One night and he messaged me

[00:30:54] Back from his profile and he just said

[00:30:56] That's not fucking cool man

[00:30:58] You know you're super fucking

[00:31:00] Disrespectful and I was like

[00:31:02] I didn't get it till the next day and I was just like

[00:31:04] I'm sorry man I was really fucked up

[00:31:06] And blocked right? Get it

[00:31:08] Okay I have to live with that now

[00:31:10] Well you must have had how many of those scenarios

[00:31:12] Well yeah

[00:31:14] And years go by

[00:31:16] And

[00:31:18] Probably

[00:31:20] 2017ish

[00:31:22] 2018ish

[00:31:24] I booked a show in Portage

[00:31:26] And somebody had suggested

[00:31:28] This band come out

[00:31:30] And play

[00:31:32] So I didn't do any dealings with them

[00:31:34] It was just suggested that they come out

[00:31:36] And play so they came out and played the show

[00:31:38] And when they walked

[00:31:40] Of the show I found out that this couple is in this band

[00:31:42] And I'm just like

[00:31:44] Holy shit

[00:31:46] We should have done some fucking research on this

[00:31:48] But

[00:31:50] I knew that was my opportunity

[00:31:52] Like the amends right? Like I was already

[00:31:54] Sober for four years or whatever

[00:31:56] Four or five years

[00:31:58] And I was already doing better

[00:32:00] So they walked in and they saw me

[00:32:02] And they just kind of stopped in their tracks

[00:32:04] And I said

[00:32:06] Where do we load in? And I said I need to talk to you two

[00:32:08] Really quickly before anything

[00:32:10] Like I just want to get this out

[00:32:12] That you know like that's who I was

[00:32:14] That's not who I am today

[00:32:16] Since gotten sober

[00:32:18] I've done tons of work on myself

[00:32:20] And I just want to put this behind us

[00:32:22] Like I'm truly sorry for any pain I caused you guys

[00:32:24] And they forgave me

[00:32:26] And we all had a great night

[00:32:28] My relationship with them

[00:32:30] Is not the same

[00:32:32] But they let go of the resentment

[00:32:34] And I got to let go of that

[00:32:36] Holding that resentment to myself

[00:32:38] Is that

[00:32:40] Do you find that

[00:32:42] In that situation people are

[00:32:44] Generally forgiving

[00:32:46] And gracious? Not always

[00:32:48] Not always yeah

[00:32:50] Which is also fine

[00:32:52] Everyone gets their own thing

[00:32:54] Yeah and I've learned that

[00:32:56] That I can't make people forgive me

[00:32:58] I cannot make people forgive me

[00:33:00] I have to accept that sometimes they're going to say

[00:33:02] I'm not ready yet

[00:33:04] Now what do you

[00:33:06] Now what's the approach

[00:33:08] Like if you go

[00:33:10] So if you go through the process of like

[00:33:12] Here's who I was

[00:33:14] I'm genuinely sorry for what happened

[00:33:18] And what I did or how this affected you

[00:33:20] I'm not sure there's tons of language around it

[00:33:24] But like is that your point of letting go

[00:33:28] Regardless of their reaction

[00:33:30] Or is that just a starting point

[00:33:32] To repair damage

[00:33:34] Like how do you perceive those

[00:33:36] The damages repaired by the immense part of it all right

[00:33:38] I mean I said I'm sorry

[00:33:40] How many fucking years in a row

[00:33:42] Nobody fucking believes me

[00:33:44] You know what I mean

[00:33:46] When do you let yourself let go of it

[00:33:48] When

[00:33:50] Maybe let go is the wrong word

[00:33:52] No it's a good word to use

[00:33:54] When do you forgive yourself

[00:33:56] Maybe that's a better way to put it

[00:33:58] So

[00:34:00] Once I know I've done everything I can

[00:34:02] Then I can forgive myself

[00:34:04] Then I don't need to hold onto it anymore

[00:34:08] As long as I've done my part

[00:34:10] So I can say I'm sorry

[00:34:12] I can say I'm a changed man

[00:34:14] Because I've said that a million fucking times

[00:34:16] But I'm actually doing it now

[00:34:18] You know what I mean

[00:34:20] I'm making a living immense to so many people

[00:34:22] By just being a different person

[00:34:24] Being better

[00:34:26] And genuinely making that effort

[00:34:28] To say I'm sorry

[00:34:30] Yeah and me

[00:34:32] And out of sincerity

[00:34:34] And real true honesty

[00:34:36] Clarity and honesty

[00:34:38] Absolutely

[00:34:40] So the first time you

[00:34:42] Tried to make amends with somebody

[00:34:44] I'm sure it was in the back of your mind

[00:34:46] Where it's like shit

[00:34:48] If they say no I don't forgive you

[00:34:50] Would that

[00:34:52] Kind of set you back a little bit

[00:34:54] Was that like a super scary

[00:34:56] Part for you

[00:34:58] Part of healing

[00:35:00] Like you were part of obviously

[00:35:02] Some type of rehabilitation

[00:35:04] Recovery program

[00:35:06] Do they prepare you for that process

[00:35:08] Because that's got to be one of

[00:35:10] Because that could be a trigger point

[00:35:12] Is it scary

[00:35:14] To walk into that step

[00:35:16] Yes it is

[00:35:18] It's very scary because like I said

[00:35:20] For as long as I can remember

[00:35:22] This is the life I know

[00:35:24] And you have to face it

[00:35:26] And I have to face it

[00:35:28] Now you have to face not yourself

[00:35:30] You have to face other people

[00:35:32] Absolutely

[00:35:34] So the big thing

[00:35:36] Is that like

[00:35:38] I

[00:35:40] I just have to be

[00:35:42] Open minded

[00:35:44] That my way is wrong

[00:35:46] My way of handling things is wrong

[00:35:48] Because every time I've tried

[00:35:50] To handle things my way

[00:35:52] It's just locked up even worse

[00:35:54] So open minded to listen

[00:35:56] To people who have been there

[00:35:58] Open minded to listen to people who

[00:36:00] Generally have a better understanding on how life works

[00:36:02] And then be willing

[00:36:04] To go through that process

[00:36:06] Even if it's fucking scary

[00:36:08] And I've learned that if it's scary

[00:36:10] You're on the right steps

[00:36:12] I mean it shouldn't be easy

[00:36:14] You'd assume it shouldn't be easy

[00:36:16] Absolutely not

[00:36:18] If it's easy you're drunk

[00:36:20] I'm just doing the thing

[00:36:24] I want to

[00:36:26] This is very

[00:36:28] I think I said this last show too

[00:36:30] But a lot of things happen in my life like this

[00:36:32] This is very divine timing that you're here today

[00:36:34] I was just going to bring it up

[00:36:36] I had a very intense

[00:36:38] And interesting couple

[00:36:40] Of interactions with a very old friend of mine

[00:36:42] In the last two weeks

[00:36:44] That are very much

[00:36:46] Along in alignment

[00:36:48] With your history

[00:36:50] And your struggles

[00:36:52] I would really like to touch on that a little bit

[00:36:54] From

[00:36:56] How he's talking to me

[00:36:58] And how we're communicating

[00:37:00] And what he's feeling

[00:37:02] I would love your perspective on

[00:37:04] What your journey was like in relation to

[00:37:06] What I'm going to tell you in a little bit

[00:37:08] So I'd love to take a quick break

[00:37:10] If you don't mind I'd really love to share that

[00:37:12] Because it's actually been weighing super heavy on me

[00:37:14] And I don't know

[00:37:16] Anybody better than you to have this conversation with

[00:37:18] For me to be a better

[00:37:20] To understand how to support

[00:37:22] Let's take a short break and then let's come back

[00:37:24] Hey Tommy

[00:37:26] Among all the episodes we've recorded

[00:37:28] There's one common theme

[00:37:30] And that's getting therapy

[00:37:32] We've talked about it lots

[00:37:34] Many many times

[00:37:36] You had a really tough time making that first phone call

[00:37:38] I had a tough time making that first phone call

[00:37:40] I didn't even know if the person I was going to see

[00:37:42] Was the right person

[00:37:44] But you gotta just try

[00:37:46] Thank goodness we have a sponsor

[00:37:48] That makes it way easier now

[00:37:50] BetterHelp has an online platform

[00:37:52] That allows you to fill out a questionnaire

[00:37:54] They connect you with a therapist

[00:37:56] And you get to communicate with them

[00:37:58] However you want

[00:38:00] So whether that's text messaging, that's emails

[00:38:02] That's through their app, that's video chats

[00:38:04] You get all those options

[00:38:06] And it makes it way less scary

[00:38:08] To be connected with someone

[00:38:10] And if you're not into the person you talk to

[00:38:12] They'll sign you another one right away

[00:38:14] I've gotten assigned mine already

[00:38:16] And I can't wait to use it

[00:38:18] By the time you hear this

[00:38:20] I will have had my first session

[00:38:22] And I'm super pumped to talk about it on the show

[00:38:24] Yeah I'm very excited about it

[00:38:26] And it's very easy to sign up

[00:38:28] It took us maybe 5 minutes to sign up

[00:38:30] And you answer just simple questions

[00:38:32] And next thing you know

[00:38:34] You got a message that

[00:38:36] You will be paired up with a therapist

[00:38:38] And within the same day we got the therapist

[00:38:40] And we got the name and message from them

[00:38:42] And we were able to communicate with them

[00:38:44] So it's extremely easy

[00:38:46] So please go to

[00:38:48] Betterhelp.com

[00:38:50] Betterhelp.com

[00:38:52] Slash quiet riot show

[00:38:54] And you get to also

[00:38:56] Enjoy 10% off for your first month

[00:38:58] If you sign up using this link

[00:39:00] So again

[00:39:02] Right here, I'm going to be doing it from here

[00:39:04] It's betterhelp

[00:39:06] Am I screwing it up?

[00:39:08] Slash quiet riot show

[00:39:10] Yeah

[00:39:12] Sign up today and

[00:39:14] You're not going to regret it

[00:39:16] Because I'm already enjoying it

[00:39:18] Just the fact that we connected with a therapist

[00:39:20] Me too man

[00:39:22] Thank you to Betterhelp for supporting this podcast

[00:39:24] Before the break we talked a little bit

[00:39:26] We've gotten a bit of your

[00:39:28] Story and I'm not even a

[00:39:30] Sliver of it but

[00:39:32] Something and so

[00:39:34] I've been

[00:39:36] I have a very very close friend

[00:39:38] We've actually known each other since nursery school

[00:39:40] And never lost touch

[00:39:42] I was the best man in his wedding

[00:39:44] We've had a very tight relationship

[00:39:46] He moved his family down to

[00:39:48] Nashville a bunch of years ago

[00:39:50] Background blah blah blah

[00:39:52] He

[00:39:54] So couple things

[00:39:56] His family

[00:39:58] In his genetics and maybe you can comment on this

[00:40:00] There's alcoholism

[00:40:02] In his family

[00:40:04] It runs in his family

[00:40:06] Is that something that you're

[00:40:08] Seems like a thing

[00:40:10] Definitely a thing

[00:40:12] Same with my dad

[00:40:14] And my dad's family

[00:40:16] They're all alcoholics

[00:40:18] That's a thing

[00:40:20] He's had a

[00:40:22] He moved to Nashville

[00:40:24] Got this great job for what he went to university for

[00:40:26] I don't want to say too much

[00:40:28] Because I want to keep him

[00:40:30] Anonymous but

[00:40:32] He's married, he has two kids

[00:40:34] Has this picturesque beautiful life

[00:40:36] Struggles with alcohol

[00:40:40] I only found out three days ago

[00:40:42] How bad it actually was

[00:40:44] But it's bad

[00:40:46] So he

[00:40:48] Was drinking too much

[00:40:50] And he's not abusive when he drinks but

[00:40:52] He was drinking too much

[00:40:54] His wife was uncomfortable with it

[00:40:56] It affects his surroundings

[00:40:58] It affects his life regardless of

[00:41:00] Whether he's yelling at them

[00:41:02] Or beating them, it still has this negative

[00:41:04] Impact

[00:41:06] So

[00:41:08] She kicks him out

[00:41:10] He goes to rehab

[00:41:12] Says he can't

[00:41:16] Afford to go to rehab for more than two

[00:41:18] Weeks, goes for two weeks

[00:41:20] Should have gone for a month

[00:41:22] Comes out not fully

[00:41:24] Equipped to deal with coming out of that

[00:41:26] I don't

[00:41:28] The feeling I got from chatting

[00:41:30] With him, I talked to him the other day

[00:41:32] For quite a while

[00:41:36] He said two weeks wasn't enough

[00:41:38] You've had those experiences

[00:41:40] I'll pause and look for

[00:41:42] Your feedback

[00:41:44] We can probably open up

[00:41:46] This conversation to a learning

[00:41:48] Experience for people who don't understand

[00:41:50] Alcoholism for what it is

[00:41:52] And maybe

[00:41:54] Are a part of it in their lives

[00:41:56] In some form and don't understand what to do

[00:41:58] Also

[00:42:00] Something like that

[00:42:02] Somebody that knows

[00:42:04] That they have a problem

[00:42:06] But they may be afraid to make that step

[00:42:08] To go into rehab and

[00:42:10] Talk about

[00:42:12] What that experience is like

[00:42:14] I don't know what rehab is like

[00:42:16] Why don't we start there

[00:42:18] I don't know what rehab is like either

[00:42:20] I never went

[00:42:22] I wish I did

[00:42:24] Don't get me wrong

[00:42:26] That's okay

[00:42:28] I wish I did because

[00:42:30] I probably wouldn't have struggled in sobriety as long as I did

[00:42:36] Rehab gives you

[00:42:38] The tools to function

[00:42:42] It gives you a safe place to be while you're learning

[00:42:44] The tools to function in society

[00:42:48] Addiction is much

[00:42:50] Further than that

[00:42:52] The reason they call it a disease is because of the way we think

[00:42:54] The way we react to things

[00:42:56] Like I said earlier

[00:42:58] My way is the wrong way

[00:43:00] That's my addiction brain

[00:43:02] That's the way my brain processes things

[00:43:04] That's the way I handle things

[00:43:06] It gives you these tools

[00:43:08] To work on

[00:43:10] Some of the stuff that

[00:43:12] Created you to turn to

[00:43:14] Substance to

[00:43:16] Numb or substance to

[00:43:20] Just function

[00:43:22] It helps you

[00:43:24] Acknowledge all those things

[00:43:26] But there's maintenance after that

[00:43:28] That's what it is for me

[00:43:30] I have to continue

[00:43:32] To maintain these things

[00:43:34] And I have to keep stepping out of my comfort zone

[00:43:36] To keep trying new things

[00:43:38] That are probably better for me

[00:43:40] Even though my brain tells me

[00:43:42] Not to

[00:43:44] You have to constantly check yourself

[00:43:46] Every day

[00:43:48] Because what your brain is telling you

[00:43:50] Is often not

[00:43:52] The right thing

[00:43:54] It tells me to do destructive things

[00:43:56] Does that ever change?

[00:43:58] No

[00:44:00] It gets easier in time

[00:44:02] Like today

[00:44:04] I'm not so dependent on

[00:44:06] My recovery groups

[00:44:08] I'm not so dependent on people in my recovery

[00:44:10] Because I know they're there

[00:44:12] And I do keep

[00:44:14] In contact with them regularly

[00:44:16] Because they've shown me that

[00:44:18] They actually care

[00:44:20] Whereas a lot of the people from my old days

[00:44:22] Didn't give two shits about me

[00:44:24] Most of them didn't even notice I was gone

[00:44:26] I still have people

[00:44:28] Like I've been sober for almost 11 years

[00:44:30] And I still have people coming up to me

[00:44:32] Saying, hey do you want a drink?

[00:44:34] Or let's have a drink and catch up

[00:44:36] And I'm like, I haven't drank in almost 11 years

[00:44:38] And they're like, shut the fuck up

[00:44:40] When did you quit?

[00:44:42] Eleven years ago

[00:44:44] You didn't even fucking notice I was gone

[00:44:46] So it's a daily maintenance thing though

[00:44:48] Because I know that

[00:44:50] When I stop doing my self care

[00:44:52] When I stop

[00:44:54] When I start pushing away the people who are healthy for me

[00:44:56] When I start pushing away

[00:44:58] People who generally want my best interest

[00:45:00] And I start associating with those people

[00:45:02] Because that's your default

[00:45:04] Yeah

[00:45:06] Your default behavior

[00:45:08] Yeah

[00:45:10] Is push the good people away

[00:45:12] Bring in the negative people

[00:45:14] And just love the shit out of them

[00:45:16] And

[00:45:18] When I stop taking care of myself

[00:45:20] Those people start

[00:45:22] Showing up in my life

[00:45:24] And these people slowly stop mattering

[00:45:28] And then I become angry

[00:45:30] I become sarcastic

[00:45:32] I become passive aggressive

[00:45:34] I become, you know

[00:45:36] Like all these people I'm not

[00:45:38] I've gone back to being that

[00:45:40] Eight year old boy who just wants to love and be loved

[00:45:42] Like I said

[00:45:44] Most days I'm an eight or a nine

[00:45:46] Because I just love life

[00:45:48] I love

[00:45:50] Everything about it

[00:45:52] I love all the people that I've met

[00:45:54] I love everything about

[00:45:56] I love my journey

[00:45:58] But then when I stop taking care of myself

[00:46:00] I start finding the resentments in it

[00:46:02] What does taking care of yourself look like for you?

[00:46:04] What is that?

[00:46:06] Well

[00:46:08] Doing

[00:46:11] Doing things like

[00:46:15] Working on the stuff that hurts me

[00:46:17] My past traumas

[00:46:19] Handling situations

[00:46:21] Before they get out of hand

[00:46:23] If I've created a situation

[00:46:25] Where like

[00:46:27] I've made somebody upset at me

[00:46:29] Like I get on that right away

[00:46:31] So those are little life skills I've learned

[00:46:33] Self care is also

[00:46:35] You know like showering every day

[00:46:37] Making my bed every day

[00:46:39] And then I'm like

[00:46:41] Making my bed every day

[00:46:43] Brushing my teeth

[00:46:45] My hair is coloured

[00:46:47] I take care of my hair

[00:46:49] I do things for me

[00:46:51] As long as it's not putting me out

[00:46:53] Because again my brain will tell me

[00:46:55] To do things for myself in excess

[00:46:57] Where like

[00:46:59] It's just like okay so I've got this much

[00:47:01] To pay my bills

[00:47:03] I can afford to

[00:47:05] Get my hair done

[00:47:07] I can afford to maybe get a tattoo

[00:47:09] Maybe an hour session

[00:47:11] But my brain will tell me

[00:47:13] To go for a full three hours

[00:47:15] And then I'm like fuck

[00:47:17] And then I go into panic mode

[00:47:19] And it's right away like oh shit I need to spend this money

[00:47:21] On something else that's going to give me instant gratification

[00:47:23] And that

[00:47:25] Stems from that

[00:47:27] The root of what that all comes from

[00:47:29] Like the root of addictions

[00:47:31] And all that

[00:47:33] It doesn't just apply to substance

[00:47:35] No, no

[00:47:37] Substance is only a symptom

[00:47:39] Of the disease

[00:47:41] Right?

[00:47:43] Like I said we do

[00:47:45] Destructive things you know

[00:47:47] So one of the destructive things we do

[00:47:49] Is we go, I remember

[00:47:51] I lived in this

[00:47:53] Apartment and

[00:47:55] To give you a general guideline

[00:47:57] Of how long ago it was

[00:47:59] My rent was $535 a month

[00:48:01] And it was a two bedroom apartment

[00:48:03] That's a long time ago

[00:48:05] So

[00:48:07] My bills

[00:48:09] I could afford to pay my bills

[00:48:11] If I wasn't drinking so much

[00:48:13] And so I would get a check

[00:48:15] Where like I couldn't manage money

[00:48:17] Or anything like that

[00:48:19] I would get a check and I'd just be like

[00:48:21] Fuck I called in sick too many times

[00:48:23] Like during this pay period

[00:48:25] Now my checks really low

[00:48:27] Fuck what am I going to do

[00:48:29] And rather than just give my landlord some fucking money

[00:48:31] And tell him like I'm going to be late

[00:48:33] I'm going to drink and think about this

[00:48:35] I'm going to do something destructive

[00:48:37] Well I

[00:48:39] To distract or delay

[00:48:41] Or yeah

[00:48:43] Anything but

[00:48:45] It's three days later and I'm fucking

[00:48:47] Laying in a fucking

[00:48:49] Someone's bed I don't know who

[00:48:51] In some fucking random town

[00:48:53] And I haven't showered for days

[00:48:55] I haven't ate for days I haven't anything

[00:48:57] But I'm super fucking hungover

[00:48:59] And I've got no money

[00:49:01] And I still haven't fixed the rent problem

[00:49:03] That's right

[00:49:05] I've actually made it worth

[00:49:07] So you mentioned that

[00:49:09] You've done some recovery groups

[00:49:11] Right

[00:49:13] So and you haven't done

[00:49:15] Rehab but what is the

[00:49:17] Difference other than

[00:49:19] I understand that in rehab you're

[00:49:21] There in that facility

[00:49:23] And going through the steps and recovery group

[00:49:25] You assume you go there like

[00:49:27] Meet once a week or twice a week or whatever

[00:49:29] Yeah

[00:49:31] As far as like

[00:49:33] Effects of both

[00:49:35] Because I kind of still want to go back to

[00:49:37] Your question

[00:49:39] Let's slowly get there I'm way more

[00:49:41] Yeah

[00:49:43] What do you think you didn't get

[00:49:45] From recovery groups that you would have gotten from

[00:49:47] Rehab because you said you wish

[00:49:49] You had done rehab

[00:49:51] So one of the things

[00:49:53] Would it just be kind of get you

[00:49:55] Where you are right now sooner

[00:49:57] Or is there something else

[00:49:59] Yeah probably sooner because

[00:50:01] Being in that safe place

[00:50:03] Like I know

[00:50:05] And I can't say for sure because

[00:50:07] I wasn't there right

[00:50:09] But I know that like

[00:50:11] The last time I was at a stabilization unit

[00:50:13] I went there and

[00:50:15] I was determined to fucking learn everything

[00:50:17] I could because that's why I was

[00:50:19] There I wasn't there for the holiday

[00:50:21] I wasn't there for a little break from

[00:50:23] Society like I kind of was but

[00:50:25] But they taught me things

[00:50:27] And I listened right

[00:50:29] And when I got clean

[00:50:31] When I realized that

[00:50:33] Shit if I quit drinking I'll quit doing drugs

[00:50:35] If I quit drinking maybe I'll quit

[00:50:37] Mistreating women you know if I quit

[00:50:39] Drinking maybe I'll pay my fucking bills

[00:50:41] Maybe I won't be 75 grand in debt

[00:50:43] Because the only people getting paid are

[00:50:45] Drug dealers and beer stores

[00:50:47] If I quit drinking maybe

[00:50:49] I'll fucking go to work every day

[00:50:51] Far fetched but

[00:50:53] Or most days

[00:50:55] I won't be hungover

[00:50:57] When I'm there I might be better

[00:50:59] But I guess it's small wins

[00:51:01] I guess you have to like

[00:51:03] So at that point I was determined

[00:51:05] To do whatever it took to get clean

[00:51:07] Except go to treatment

[00:51:09] And again that's my head saying

[00:51:11] It's a mental thing

[00:51:13] Because rehab

[00:51:15] Or treatment whatever you want to call it

[00:51:17] That's a really dramatic

[00:51:19] Shift and one that's forced

[00:51:21] Essentially can be forced upon you

[00:51:23] In one way or another

[00:51:25] Like my buddy's wife

[00:51:27] Said no you're going to rehab

[00:51:29] Or this is what the consequences of that are

[00:51:35] And like well what are you gonna do

[00:51:37] And he had a great job

[00:51:39] He was functioning well at his job

[00:51:41] He was showing up to work

[00:51:43] To a point which we'll get to

[00:51:45] But like he was a

[00:51:47] Psychiatrist in one of the

[00:51:49] Top seven school divisions in the United States

[00:51:53] Like a career man

[00:51:55] Like a really

[00:51:57] And a very smart man

[00:51:59] A very honorable man that I've always known

[00:52:01] And I've known him

[00:52:03] Never to be anything different

[00:52:05] Yeah we drank together

[00:52:07] But we had fun every time we did it

[00:52:09] Like that's where I was at with it

[00:52:11] Until fucking four days ago

[00:52:13] Or three days ago

[00:52:15] When I learned a little more about this

[00:52:17] And so

[00:52:19] So he went

[00:52:21] He went for two weeks

[00:52:23] He didn't go for the full month which was

[00:52:25] Or 20 some day whatever

[00:52:27] He didn't go for the full length

[00:52:29] Because now I want your commentary on this

[00:52:31] He said

[00:52:33] I couldn't afford to go

[00:52:35] For that long

[00:52:37] I can't be away from work that long

[00:52:39] He said to me

[00:52:41] Probably all

[00:52:43] And he said this to me three days ago

[00:52:45] So basically just excuses

[00:52:47] Is that how you perceive that

[00:52:49] This is not unfamiliar commentary

[00:52:51] That was the excuse I made

[00:52:53] Was I can't be away from work that long

[00:52:55] I have child support to pay off

[00:52:57] Child support to catch up on

[00:52:59] I have like all $75,000 of fucking debt

[00:53:01] Like everything just got chaotic in my fucking head

[00:53:03] I can't be gone for a whole

[00:53:05] 28 days or whatever

[00:53:07] So that was his moment in that

[00:53:09] So he went for two weeks

[00:53:11] He came out

[00:53:13] When it ended up being quite a while

[00:53:15] More than six months

[00:53:17] Then

[00:53:19] Something happened to

[00:53:22] So she had kind of told him

[00:53:24] At this point like

[00:53:26] Here's what you're doing

[00:53:28] Here's how it's affecting our family

[00:53:30] And here's what's going to happen if you don't fix this

[00:53:32] Like if you don't correct this

[00:53:34] This is what's going to happen

[00:53:36] Like we are leaving

[00:53:38] She gave him plenty of warning

[00:53:40] Like years of warning

[00:53:42] Then so everything was going

[00:53:44] Sailing along fine

[00:53:46] He was doing his thing

[00:53:48] They were together, he was with the kids

[00:53:50] He was living like during that rehab

[00:53:52] And just before that she had asked him to go

[00:53:54] Stay somewhere else

[00:53:56] She's protecting her kids

[00:53:58] Is really what it came down to actually

[00:54:00] And I've had some time to think about our conversation

[00:54:02] With him or my conversation with him

[00:54:04] And like talk to my wife about a little bit

[00:54:06] Because I needed some input

[00:54:08] And guidance

[00:54:10] A mother and a wife's position

[00:54:12] And all this

[00:54:14] And she's been through that

[00:54:16] My wife's ex-husband who is the

[00:54:18] Sperm donor for my daughter

[00:54:22] That's even probably too much of a compliment

[00:54:26] He struggled with drug addiction

[00:54:28] Alcohol

[00:54:30] Like every addiction you can find

[00:54:32] Which I guess it's all just one

[00:54:34] Struggles with addictions

[00:54:36] To whatever level

[00:54:38] So she actually understands how that works

[00:54:40] And she had a daughter in that scenario

[00:54:42] Who she had to protect

[00:54:44] She had to protect not only herself

[00:54:46] Which she was actually willing to sacrifice

[00:54:48] For her daughter

[00:54:50] Our daughter

[00:54:52] So he had been given fair warning

[00:54:54] She ended up getting some medical news

[00:54:56] That was negative

[00:54:58] They lost a baby

[00:55:00] They were having their third child

[00:55:02] She was pregnant with their third child

[00:55:04] She lost a baby

[00:55:06] Those things obviously

[00:55:08] Set them off

[00:55:12] Talk to me about triggers

[00:55:16] Triggers and tools to handle

[00:55:18] Said triggers

[00:55:20] I did not see that question coming

[00:55:22] I was trying to figure out where you're going with this

[00:55:24] Very good

[00:55:26] That's why I keep you around

[00:55:28] That's where that daily maintenance comes in

[00:55:30] The daily taking care of yourself

[00:55:32] Going to the recovery meetings

[00:55:34] I go to those fucking meetings

[00:55:36] How long?

[00:55:38] If it's not broke, I'm not going to fix it

[00:55:40] Another way to look at it

[00:55:42] Is if a diabetic stops taking their insulin

[00:55:44] They're going to get sick again

[00:55:46] If I stop going to my recovery meetings

[00:55:48] I'm going to get sick again

[00:55:50] You're sure not doing yourself any favors

[00:55:52] Absolutely

[00:55:54] So why would I just not go sit with these junkies for an hour

[00:55:56] Talk about shit that we're all familiar with

[00:55:58] And then they're going to get sick

[00:56:00] I'm going to go to the recovery meeting

[00:56:02] But that's the only thing I'm all familiar with

[00:56:06] And then chances are I won't use that day

[00:56:08] It's really that simple

[00:56:10] Is that what it's about

[00:56:12] That day, that hour

[00:56:14] I guess everyone's got a different timeline

[00:56:16] As you go down the process

[00:56:18] The other part of addiction for me

[00:56:20] Is

[00:56:22] I will look into the future

[00:56:24] I'll look into the past

[00:56:26] And live in those two areas

[00:56:28] And I'll just piss all over today

[00:56:30] do lots. So just focusing on today, my brother who is also in recovery tried my way of getting

[00:56:42] clean and it didn't work for him a lot of years, whereas me it was just like, okay

[00:56:47] I'm done, I have to be done forever so I gotta be fucking make sure I do whatever

[00:56:51] I have to to make sure I'm done forever.

[00:56:53] Now do you, not to cut you off, but do you feel like you're a bit of an anomaly in that sense?

[00:57:02] I definitely am. Because one of the things I struggle with is when people come into recovery

[00:57:10] and then they go back out. And then they come in and they go back out. And no matter how many

[00:57:15] meetings they're doing, no matter how much care they're taking of themselves, they still

[00:57:18] make that decision to go back out. And you just want to shake them and throw them against the wall, but that's not going to do any fucking good.

[00:57:26] Is there frustration in that for you? Or is it angry frustration or loving frustration?

[00:57:34] Loving frustration. I don't understand why these people can't just get it the way I did, right?

[00:57:42] Because I came in and I stayed in. It's life or death. I was willing to make those fucking

[00:57:48] changes, right? And that's where I struggle in certain aspects of recovery, right?

[00:57:54] Is because I watch all these people. I watched my brother come and go for fucking years and years

[00:58:00] and years and years. Like he's five years now so for like six years I watched him. He's supposed

[00:58:04] to be a day more sober than I am. He bought drugs off me the night that I was doing heroin

[00:58:09] and then said fuck this I'm done tomorrow. And he did. He quit. And the day after that I quit.

[00:58:15] And he was sober for like eight or nine months and then went back out. And like I watched him fucking

[00:58:23] struggle, right? And I'm going like why don't you just fucking get it? Like just come to meetings,

[00:58:27] keep in touch with the sponsor, you know? Like work your recovery. And I wasn't doing all those

[00:58:32] things but I was making sure that like my daily maintenance to take care of myself was done.

[00:58:36] And I was still living very chaotically but I was doing it sober. So the problem is, is like

[00:58:43] without a recovery program, whatever that may be,

[00:58:49] you become what's called a dry drunk or a dry druggie and you're doing all the same things

[00:58:55] you were doing in active addiction but you're doing it sober. So that's where the addiction,

[00:59:02] the drug use or whatever is just a symptom of it, right? It's who we are. And if you don't

[00:59:10] change those behaviors you're not going to ever get better. It's actually not about the thing.

[00:59:16] No, it's definitely not. So and it sounds like your buddy made that effort to be the

[00:59:24] better person but at the end of the day he's got that genetic in him where he's going to,

[00:59:32] that disease in him where he's going to handle his shit by turning to the bottle.

[00:59:37] Yeah, so he did. Okay, so that his wife was sick, something happened, they lost the baby. That was

[00:59:48] obvious like I think for anyone ever that's a hard thing. Like that must be unbelievably

[00:59:54] difficult. Never mind if you're weak, if you're sick, not weak, sick, if you're sick.

[00:59:59] Yeah. So he went back to it, then he was trying to hide it. I think that's a normal thing.

[01:00:07] That's a very normal thing. Yeah, that's a super normal thing. I think most people know about that

[01:00:12] and if you don't that's what happens. He had brought, now it was interesting and he may

[01:00:18] listen to this and call me out which is great he should but part of, so he had said I bought

[01:00:25] a bottle, I was drinking, I didn't want my wife to know, I didn't want her and the kids to know

[01:00:33] so I put it in my work bag and I was going to throw it away at work.

[01:00:36] I didn't say to him in that moment, you sure you weren't just taking it to work to drink it

[01:00:41] at work? Because that's what I felt right away. Right, yeah. And I don't want to,

[01:00:45] I don't know if that's judgmental or that's just maybe you're not being entirely

[01:00:50] truthful of me in this scenario because to me that sounds like that's what that is. Like why

[01:00:54] wouldn't you leave in the car then? Like yeah, there's a million, you had a million, I just wanted

[01:00:58] to throw it away. Why did you throw it away on the way to work? Stop at McDonald's.

[01:01:01] Absolutely. Yeah, toss it out the fucking window. Like there's a million ways to get rid of it.

[01:01:05] You couldn't get rid of it that's, but hey he's on his own journey. That's the simple

[01:01:09] situation. It's okay. Just throw it out. So we did it. He kept it. Well and he kept it

[01:01:15] because I think, did he drink it at work? I don't know if he did or not. Did he want it

[01:01:19] there so that maybe he could if he wanted to? Probably. I think that's a reasonable thing to say

[01:01:25] unless you disagree. So they found it. They have a zero tolerance policy in that field and in

[01:01:34] those school divisions, which is fair. I think that's reasonable. So his license was suspended.

[01:01:39] He had to resign from his job and his license was suspended. Holy fuck. Like so he had to

[01:01:45] go home and tell his wife I lost my job. I lost my license for two years. Like it's suspended

[01:01:52] for two years. He's a psychiatrist. That's a real job that pays really well, that feeds a

[01:01:58] family, supports a family, all these things. He chose like, and he talked to me about it

[01:02:03] numerous times throughout the conversation. Like I knew the risks and I still did it.

[01:02:08] Well and I think people don't think clearly in that state of mind. Whether you're

[01:02:15] under the influence or not. That's the disease part of it. Yeah, you're used to this norm,

[01:02:21] right? And you're lying to your family, you're lying to your friends, you're lying to yourself.

[01:02:27] And you truly believe that that is the only solution. And until you've, I guess you

[01:02:34] change your mindset and get into that like yourself where like no, this is what I need

[01:02:38] to do for myself every day to get better and continue to do that. Continue the steps,

[01:02:45] continue the good habits, right? That stop you from grabbing that bottle of beer,

[01:02:52] weed, whatever it is, right? In 2019 I dated a girl who was an alcoholic and

[01:02:59] you know she did drugs prior to me and she was allegedly you know clean from them or whatever.

[01:03:06] And like this girl, like I was super in love with her and like I just fucking like made her my whole

[01:03:13] fucking world. Like I would have thrown everything away for her and she slipped back into drug use

[01:03:19] and I never noticed. Right? Now that I know that she did, I can see all the things that-

[01:03:25] Sure, hindsight.

[01:03:26] See the signs and everything but-

[01:03:27] At the time?

[01:03:28] Hindsight 2020.

[01:03:29] Well you were blinded by the love right? Like you were really happy with it.

[01:03:31] Yeah, yeah, right. So-

[01:03:33] That's a song isn't it? It must be a song by somebody.

[01:03:36] No, not that one but there's gotta be a song.

[01:03:38] Blind love, it starts with a no.

[01:03:41] So anyway I dated this girl and like fucking everything was amazing. We never fought,

[01:03:47] not once in a year. We didn't fight once. We talked, we communicated. Everything was

[01:03:52] awesome until she went back into drug use. And I always said to her like I don't care if you

[01:03:59] drink, I'm the one with the fucking problem right? If it affects our relationship then

[01:04:03] we have to talk about it right? A conversation.

[01:04:05] Yep.

[01:04:05] Reasonable?

[01:04:06] Absolutely, right? I'm making a fucking choice to date an alcoholic.

[01:04:11] I can make a choice to work through things or whatever right? So she hid that from me

[01:04:19] and I just kept saying to her like we gotta talk, we gotta talk about this soon

[01:04:22] and she said I'm not ready to talk to you yet. You know I need space. And I gave

[01:04:26] her space. I was more than happy to give her the space.

[01:04:29] That's fair, yeah.

[01:04:29] Right? I didn't want to be overbearing.

[01:04:31] It's a tough conversation to be had.

[01:04:33] Absolutely, but I didn't know she had used it yet right? I just know that something happened

[01:04:38] during a fucking drinking bender and still blinded by love. I didn't see all the

[01:04:43] fucking signs. I led to her being up all night using blow. And so anyway, she uh

[01:04:52] after two months of neglect, two months of this, I just need more time. I need more time.

[01:04:59] I was starting to think to myself like maybe if I just show up with a fucking case of beer,

[01:05:03] she'll want me around. And this is like fucking six, seven years clean already.

[01:05:09] It's going against your code.

[01:05:11] Yeah and then I'm like uh oh I'm in danger. Like I need fucking help. So you know again

[01:05:16] going to my recovery groups and stuff like that and really leaning on my friends in recovery,

[01:05:20] my family in recovery because they are like a family. And so that got me through all that

[01:05:27] toughness and listening to all these people in recovery saying like you need to fucking leave

[01:05:31] that relationship because now your recovery is in jeopardy. Now you're at risk. Yeah so I finally

[01:05:37] left it and like and it was fucking hard for me to do. Like to this day, I'm shit terrified

[01:05:43] that if to this day she came up to me and said yeah you'd fall right back in. Absolutely

[01:05:47] right. Yeah of course. So I'm happy that we don't talk. I'm happy that you know she's moved

[01:05:52] on with her life and whatever right. I wish her nothing but the best. And so

[01:06:01] then years later like my mom died last year or last two years, almost two years ago. Yeah.

[01:06:07] And that's coming up. That was fucking hard right. Like that was like

[01:06:15] fuck the most important person in my life just died. Yeah. And I still didn't fucking use.

[01:06:20] Like to me the only thing worse than losing a parent or losing your mom and specifically a mom

[01:06:26] and I don't care if you've had a shitty relationship with your mom, you lose your mom.

[01:06:31] If you don't have those resentments to her, if you lose your mom that's the person that carried

[01:06:36] you for nine months. They brought you into the world. Yeah. That's the person who's supposed

[01:06:41] to and I say that because some mothers are kind of fucked up that way but like generally

[01:06:47] that's the woman who's gonna, that's the one person who's gonna love you more than anybody

[01:06:50] else possibly could. Yeah. Right. So when you lose your mom no matter what. Yeah I agree. That

[01:06:54] is like the fucking hardest thing ever aside from losing a child. Yeah. That's the only thing

[01:07:00] I imagine is worse than losing your mom. Yeah. Right and for me like that lifestyle

[01:07:07] is not enticing enough for me to go back there so I'm at a point in my recovery where

[01:07:13] I know that my recovery family, my recovery group, those are the people I need to lean on

[01:07:18] because they're gonna help me through all these thoughts of like I just need to numb this. Yeah.

[01:07:23] And I know a quick fix. I do know a quick fix. Of course. You know. It'll be done probably

[01:07:27] right away. Yeah. Yeah. I still live in the town I got fucked up in you know like

[01:07:33] I know drug dealers still. I know. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's not hard. No. Exactly. Yeah it's

[01:07:39] super easy right. But the better option is to stick close to my recovery group. Right. And so

[01:07:43] my buddy had his church part of what he moved down there for was this church and a faith that

[01:07:48] him and his wife and I'm not here to shit on anyone's anything like yeah oh he joined this

[01:07:53] church it's a bit of a out there church but everyone says it's culty and okay fine but

[01:07:59] well and all I said to him was like hey man and I grew up in the church and I have I'm

[01:08:04] the man I am today because of it. Yeah. I don't believe in it anymore but that doesn't matter.

[01:08:09] And this church has been under lots of scrutiny there's this documentary it's a whole fucking

[01:08:15] shit show but all I said to him at the beginning is hey man I'm all good with you

[01:08:19] doing this all with your family I'm not here to get in your way. Yeah. If you and your wife

[01:08:23] and your family are happy and healthy and your kids are happy I think it's fucking amazing.

[01:08:27] Yeah. Whatever's doing that for you I think is the fucking best. For sure. Whether I believe

[01:08:31] it or not does not matter. Yeah. And so then the church shut him out.

[01:08:38] Yeah. So his he moved down there for this church he that was his recovery group that was his

[01:08:46] family. Yeah. His fellow church members and everything and because they've been under all

[01:08:53] the scrutiny from the media and blah blah blah they cut him out. That's horrible. He

[01:08:58] told me that the other day he's like yeah they told me I can't be I can't attend anymore

[01:09:03] I can't even watch the online fucking sermons. Right. I can't be a part of this at all.

[01:09:11] I had an immediate reaction where I said well that sounds fucking Christ like

[01:09:16] and then I paused and I just said you know what man that's not appropriate. Like I

[01:09:20] absolutely my feelings about this about your belief system are not valid and like not

[01:09:26] important. Trust me. And so I stopped immediately and apologized because I said that wasn't a fair

[01:09:31] statement. I'm sorry. Yeah. But that was my first thought. I said someday we can have

[01:09:36] that conversation if you ever want. Yeah. But today is not the day for doing that.

[01:09:40] That was my first thought though because it's as a as a and I can just assume as an alcoholic

[01:09:47] or a substance abuser. An addict. An addict. Yeah. When you're leaning on a group or a person

[01:09:58] and if they reject you. Oh yeah then you're fucked. I mean that that's gonna be the probably

[01:10:03] one of the worst triggers for you. Absolutely yeah because the people you've invested everything

[01:10:08] into and learned to trust right. Because in that world I don't even fucking trust myself how

[01:10:13] am I going to trust anybody else right. Yeah. And now I got to fucking trust all these strangers in

[01:10:18] these rooms. Yeah. Right. And you do. And it turns out they fucking want nothing more than

[01:10:23] for me to stay clean. Yeah. Right. Cool what more like that's the fucking the greatest thing

[01:10:28] anybody could ask of ask of me right. But it's a jump it's a risk. It is. And you do the same

[01:10:32] for others. They look at you and go like why the fuck would this guy care. For sure. Yeah.

[01:10:37] So the people he cared about the most who he needed the most fucking bailed on him. Yeah.

[01:10:45] And never mind their church their Chris I don't care about that. Yeah yeah. The people closest

[01:10:48] to him fucking bailed. Yeah. He's got nobody else. Yeah. He has his family who he doesn't

[01:10:53] have anymore she's kicked him out. She sent him divorce papers a week ago. Wow. He had

[01:10:58] another incident with a relapse. He went to rehab again before that it's it goes on and

[01:11:05] you've heard this story a thousand times. For sure. To play to play devil's advocate

[01:11:11] do though for you know I'm not sure how many times it has happened where he's tried to

[01:11:18] get clean and fell back. You know I assume three significant ones. Yeah. So I assume

[01:11:23] his wife now whether she gave him ultimatum or not my mom gave my dad ultimatum when

[01:11:31] she was pregnant with me and he went to rehab and he cleaned up and everything you know and

[01:11:37] it sucks because I know one person now very close one that like he's fallen off the wagon

[01:11:46] and I think and I think maybe not in your case because you're you've managed to do

[01:11:52] yourself and you're still doing it but I think many people try and fall off and try and fall

[01:12:00] off and I don't think many people can say that they've tried once and then they stayed. Well again

[01:12:06] we talked about dags and anomaly. Yeah well and I mean like I don't classify all the times

[01:12:12] throughout my fucking drinking career that I tried to quit for a day or two or whatever.

[01:12:18] Those were dry out periods that's what I used to calling them right. I need to learn how

[01:12:22] to fucking drink better. It's not a recovery it's not a it's not a change. So I see that

[01:12:28] maybe his wife was just had enough and sure you know what like you can throw the divorce papers

[01:12:34] on there maybe she's hoping that this is going to be a wake-up call for him right and maybe

[01:12:40] let's hope right this is a wake-up call and then and they it just kind of reverses eventually

[01:12:47] and they'll be happy again right. We can only hope for our friends and family and just to

[01:12:52] we have to because if we don't have hope they're fucked yeah exactly someone has to

[01:12:56] the sticky part about that is when you are in a relationship with an addict

[01:13:03] you are the most susceptible to enable that addict right by taking him back because he's

[01:13:10] sorry taking him back because he's crying you know taking him back because things are going

[01:13:13] to change right. I fucking said that a million fucking times like it was a part of my regular

[01:13:18] vocabulary and it fucking worked every time. That does not help me just enables yeah it

[01:13:24] enables me right so I mean good on her no disrespect to your friend. No no no yeah I

[01:13:30] understand you know like you said she's got to protect her kids right and that's when you

[01:13:34] become impaired that's their number one priority. Yeah and that's her way to end

[01:13:39] enabling yeah right. I'm not going to stand by and watch you fucking kill yourself yeah

[01:13:44] yeah I need to fucking step back for the safety of our kids for the safety myself

[01:13:48] and for your safety hopefully you find a way and because like and what did he

[01:13:53] he's been to rehab a couple times there's a lot of like sayings and things that are common I'm

[01:13:58] sure but like he had said the only way this ends is somebody dies. Jails institutions are

[01:14:04] death yeah there it is yeah yeah those were exactly that was thank you for correcting me

[01:14:09] that was exactly what he said yeah so I'm sure that's language that's common and also

[01:14:14] 100% accurate it is like that is actually only where it ends. Look at what I said I said if I

[01:14:19] was still out there yeah I'd either be dead or out stealing these bikes or whatever right.

[01:14:24] Yeah so his last one he said to me he was talking to me about it and he said

[01:14:30] I knew the risks I knew the consequences I knew what was going to happen I knew all of those

[01:14:38] things and a five dollar bottle of vodka and then I cut him off and said goddamn America

[01:14:44] with their cheap I did I did cut him off to say that but but then we moved on and he

[01:14:51] yeah like he said a five dollar bottle of vodka yeah is what this why I'm here today and I

[01:14:58] said well no I said how many bottles of whatever have brought you here today but I

[01:15:03] understand what you're like I understand I said I understand the context of what you're

[01:15:06] saying five dollar bottle put him over that was that threshold that was the last straw yeah

[01:15:11] yeah absolutely no well no and because he said I thought I would break he said he was he was

[01:15:17] crying and he said like I thought I would be the first one to break the cycle in my family

[01:15:22] I thought and I said well the cycle is not too late it's not too late yeah I just said

[01:15:26] that to him I just said like well it's not over yeah still here yeah but like I also said

[01:15:31] after that like nothing I'm gonna say to you is gonna make you feel any better in this

[01:15:35] moment so it gives a fuck yeah but I'm gonna say it anyways because I love you and like whether

[01:15:39] you want to hear it or not I don't give a shit yeah but like you're gonna hear it yeah and then

[01:15:43] we'll move on yeah and I just said the cycle's not over you're still here you're not dead

[01:15:51] his mom and dad are helping him through this his mom left his dad because of his drinking

[01:15:55] problems okay and they're both working together to help him figure this out yeah and like he

[01:16:01] went from this great job this great career this beautiful family like the picturesque everything

[01:16:08] he's renting a room in someone's house right now making 17 dollars an hour at a job because

[01:16:13] he can't his license has been suspended yeah well you know like what a fucking fall from grace

[01:16:19] like but but I'm sure you've heard this story yeah a million times over yeah we do need to

[01:16:28] fall down to get back up again yeah yeah so I hope he gets up yeah and and that's all we can do

[01:16:35] right like we can be there to helping hand so what can I do you're doing everything okay yeah

[01:16:41] tell him fucking straight yeah don't love what I'm doing I'm loving him and not bullshitting

[01:16:46] I couldn't think of a better fucking person to be his support to be honest because I'll just

[01:16:51] fucking no no because because you you aren't a guy that beats around the bush yeah right

[01:17:01] yes you don't understand yeah the entirety of what he's going through no I don't have a clue

[01:17:05] but he needs that fucking no bullshit friend yeah right because now his his supports left him

[01:17:11] his family's left him yeah yeah you know he's got nobody right he's got you and you're

[01:17:17] gonna fucking tell him straight when I got clean my first sponsor never fucking held my hand

[01:17:22] never he would never tell me everything's gonna be okay yeah because I would have fucking

[01:17:26] manipulated him too yeah of course yeah yeah right yeah like no I'm so sad oh my life is

[01:17:33] falling apart oh it's okay yeah I got this motherfucker now he's feeling sorry for me yeah

[01:17:37] yeah no I personally always and like I have a very addictive personality I never

[01:17:42] have fallen that deep into the hole but I love straight shooters yeah like call me out on the

[01:17:51] bullshit because yeah like you said if you're gonna sympathize sympathize sympathize with me

[01:18:01] your English has been great today no it actually has been I'm going to take an advantage of

[01:18:06] you yeah right yeah absolutely and that's why I talked about that earlier yeah that's why I

[01:18:11] love you and I love you too and like I have very close friends one of our previous guests Glenn

[01:18:17] Damon too he told me straight up when I tried to start my business is like well you gotta quit

[01:18:21] this you gotta quit this you gotta stop having fun you need to focus on this shit you want it

[01:18:25] to be successful you gotta do this is what it takes yeah and and I love that because

[01:18:30] I am one of those people I'm a lazy guy yeah sorry I'm a comfortable guy I like my

[01:18:35] comfort yeah and I need that kick in my ass sometimes to to get up and fucking do my shit

[01:18:41] right so I really appreciate that I love that from my friends that tell me honestly what they

[01:18:46] think I don't beat around the bush and some people might not know that they that's what

[01:18:52] they need yeah so you know like your your buddy there like I think it's a good thing

[01:18:57] that I'm not sure if he reached out or you reached out to him it was actually strange I saw

[01:19:02] it doesn't matter but I was on his I have his wife on Facebook I have him on Facebook blah blah

[01:19:09] but I saw like his wife had posted a bunch of pictures on Facebook and he wasn't in any of them

[01:19:15] okay and I was like that's weird yeah yeah like everything for a reason yeah something didn't it

[01:19:21] was a significant event at their church like some fucking Passover Christian thing yeah and

[01:19:25] I was like oh he's not in any of these photos that seems weird so I just texted him I said

[01:19:30] hey man I noticed your wife posted these photos and you're not in any of them so like

[01:19:37] just checking in everything all right and he's like he he responded and was like it's crazy

[01:19:43] you text me that today I'm literally having the worst day I've ever had in my entire life he's

[01:19:48] like I'm actually at the bottom and like wrote me a thing we texted back and forth a bunch I

[01:19:53] said hey man I'm not here to push but like if you want to have a conversation you tell

[01:19:57] me when and like I'm available yeah I also said just for the record because some of the things

[01:20:01] he said were uh they were a little bit scary in sense of like uh they were teasing things that

[01:20:09] lead to problems like self-harm stuff and so I I don't fuck I don't fuck with that yeah and

[01:20:14] so I just said to him I said also whether you're at risk or not for this uh you now

[01:20:20] have to respond to everything I say to you and whenever I say it yeah and so I said I'm

[01:20:25] going to text you whenever I feel like it and I don't care if you want to talk you don't have

[01:20:29] to talk to me but you have to say something yeah so you can say k you can say okay you can say

[01:20:34] yep I don't give a fuck but you're responsible to respond to whatever I text you within 20

[01:20:40] minutes yeah and so I just said I don't even care how you feel about this this is what we're

[01:20:44] doing yeah yeah no and so maybe he is you know how we mentioned with uh Brendan how he

[01:20:52] was hoping to um he wouldn't contact any of his friends let's see who will reach out to me yeah

[01:21:00] right and maybe he's at that stage too that like well I think he's feeling a lot of shame

[01:21:04] yeah I think he's feeling a ton of shame yeah and so like for me like I always I'm a very

[01:21:11] visual person so I got to visualize things to understand them so I've created my addiction

[01:21:15] to be this you know like in in old western movies the sheriff's office with this drunken

[01:21:20] cell in the middle of the room that's my head and so my addiction is a monster and I'm the sheriff

[01:21:28] yeah okay so this monster all day just beaks at me yeah all fucking day most days I'm just like

[01:21:34] shut up go to sleep yeah you know like you're not coming out sometimes it gets you're not

[01:21:38] coming but sometimes he just he's hey how you doing today you know he's nice he's pleasant

[01:21:44] and we have a conversation and everything's okay and then he convinces me to let him out just

[01:21:49] to play cards he won't leave promises he won't leave yeah and he can't fucking leave because

[01:21:53] he's in my fucking head yeah right and and so I let him out to play cards and then he starts

[01:22:00] winning now I'm getting frustrated and this is addiction winning in my life right this is where

[01:22:06] my life starts becoming unmanageable yeah and and that's where the problem is is we make our

[01:22:11] lives unmanageable right and and any any 12-step group that is step one that

[01:22:22] we became powerless over our addiction yeah that our lives had become unmanageable

[01:22:27] it's two parts right so it's for me when I got clean it was sitting in the fucking hospital

[01:22:35] right because I wanted to kill myself but then I'm going shit if I quit drinking now you

[01:22:39] know like seeing all this unmanageability as a result of my addiction yeah and feeling that

[01:22:44] weight lifting off my shoulder like everything is going to be okay I just need to get help for my

[01:22:47] addictions right and if you don't see that unmanageability you're not gonna you're not

[01:22:55] going to want to get clean you're not going to want to get the help yeah and that's that's

[01:22:59] what I see so often right and and with that comes and and again no no disrespect to your

[01:23:06] friend and no disrespect to people who are truly truly truly struggling with mental health and

[01:23:12] suicide ideation stuff is manipulation with through yeah through suicidal of course right

[01:23:18] because that is truly how we feel in that moment well we truly feel like we want to

[01:23:22] edit take them lightly no absolutely not it's not worth the risk right and so when I got

[01:23:28] clean I spent three days in my fucking head going like visualizing myself trying to kill myself

[01:23:37] like yeah I was a chef at the time I worked with fucking knives and I was visualing me

[01:23:41] opening up my fucking knife fold and right in the middle of the kitchen I worked at and just

[01:23:45] start fucking cutting to kill right yeah and at first it was just kind of like oh that

[01:23:50] was kind of strange but then it got more and more real in my head right and and I went to

[01:23:55] the hospital because I was like fuck this is not okay like I am not okay at all and

[01:24:03] and I was there for five hours before I started realizing all these

[01:24:07] things as a result of my addiction right and then everything felt okay

[01:24:12] I just needed to put in that work to get the help for my addiction yeah so I have one more

[01:24:17] question so if and I just want your honest input like absolutely he's clearly having the hardest

[01:24:27] time he's ever felt he's had in his life we were talking the other day for two hours almost

[01:24:35] he was drinking yeah is there something I should do with that situation should I say I'm not

[01:24:43] talking to you if you're drinking should I say like you know what man if you're drinking

[01:24:46] or if you're drunk right now like we can't talk yeah is that actually the right thing

[01:24:50] because I just like because at one point he asked me he's like he's like oh what are you

[01:24:54] sipping on because I always got cubes clicking and also it's your problem not mine like don't

[01:24:59] whatever you said that to me right at the beginning of our friendship and but it's it

[01:25:05] doesn't mean I don't love and I don't care and I'm not sensitive to it's just like

[01:25:08] I'm here to support but like not like that yeah absolutely and so should I have just like

[01:25:15] because he told me he'd been drinking and blah blah and then I like wanted to talk about it with

[01:25:19] him and I'm like okay well like is this the plan for this week or is this the plan for this

[01:25:26] month like yeah listen I know this is heavy it all sucks and like you're doing your thing

[01:25:31] and like I'm not here to tell you what to do but like what where's the end game on this

[01:25:38] plan right and that's what that's what I asked but like is the right thing to do just

[01:25:41] be like oh you're drinking let's talk when you're not yeah that feels dismissive to me

[01:25:47] and sort of yeah is that a me problem is that just me feeling that is because because so in that

[01:25:54] situation that is my monster is out of the cage he's got me fucking tied up to a chair

[01:26:00] and gagged yeah and now you're talking to the monster it's not me answering you from

[01:26:05] not actually having yeah okay you know interesting okay the monster quiet it's it's not that it's

[01:26:13] the monster is the one fucking answering you how do you say that I don't know uh and I say

[01:26:17] everything pretty straightforward but I couldn't even handle that one right was like I didn't

[01:26:21] know what to do yeah no which is why I'm asking you right now like I I literally didn't know

[01:26:26] I felt so much guilt about I felt an inclination to say like oh this isn't the

[01:26:32] right time to have a real conversation about this essentially but I felt so much guilt about

[01:26:37] that because he's so sad and he's having such a hard time and I love him and it's like

[01:26:44] I didn't know what to do I actually just had no idea what to do so I just figured

[01:26:48] if I can have them on the phone and have a conversation that's probably okay would it help

[01:26:52] to just tell them listen to this episode well we'll get there but yeah because like I mean

[01:26:58] yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

[01:27:02] but like he's I'm gonna talk to him in a day for sure yeah yeah I think what do I do in that

[01:27:07] scenario I think or what do you think I should do sorry well at the end of the day again you're

[01:27:11] not talking to him you're talking to you're talking to the beast yeah yeah okay and so

[01:27:15] you're you're you can sit on the phone and just humor him but any advice you give him is

[01:27:23] you're just giving that monster yeah advice right and that monster just like taking it

[01:27:27] just going oh this is what do we want to do so I know now he's gonna fight it fight

[01:27:32] how not to do that yeah yeah okay so I mean at the end of the day like that's still your

[01:27:39] homie that's still your buddy you know like and you still love him and you can be there

[01:27:44] for him it's just I think like redirecting the conversation when it starts getting towards

[01:27:49] like anything I need help or anything like that it's just like okay buddy you know like we'll talk

[01:27:54] about that tomorrow like after you so keep it like I can talk to him he's my friend but

[01:27:59] like let's not try and come up with solutions here plans yeah because you're not ready to

[01:28:03] take on plans yeah because we talked about like lawyers and divorce and all this stuff and

[01:28:07] I was like and then I realized I'm like oh you're like you're drunk yeah and so like

[01:28:13] those are sober conversations like let's talk about the hockey game cool yeah and like how we

[01:28:18] used to play music together like that sounds fun absolutely like is that okay to do that is for

[01:28:22] sure that is yeah okay because you're still showing them there you're that you're that I love him and

[01:28:27] care and I'm here yeah but like let's not but you're not making any progress yeah you definitely

[01:28:33] aren't like you're distracting the monster right yeah yeah okay no that's that's like

[01:28:37] unbelievably valuable yeah and this is going to be the next however many months of my life

[01:28:44] trying to love him enough through this and like I'm not going to fix it I'm not going to do shit

[01:28:50] but like no I love him and I want to be there and so that's where the problem is

[01:28:56] and that's where the problem is is like we want to help somebody that we're willing to

[01:29:01] put our own fucking personal values out yeah to try to help that person and we have to take

[01:29:06] care of us first like this whole fucking series that you guys do is all about let's take care

[01:29:11] of us yeah right yeah because if we're not okay we can't help anybody yeah and you get severe

[01:29:17] burnout from trying to help an addict who doesn't want help I can only imagine yeah like

[01:29:22] severe fucking burnout yeah and like well because just beating your head into a wall

[01:29:27] yeah yeah yeah absolutely yeah if I if you're willing I'd love to send me his contact

[01:29:34] because like as I'm going through this with him because I'm committed to him and I love

[01:29:39] him and so I just there may be moments where I could use a little more reality check absolutely

[01:29:46] yeah yeah now it just uh I think we're getting towards the end of the episode but um is it is

[01:29:53] it like would you recommend anything for uh for him to do to get on the right path like

[01:30:02] you know like you've talked about getting a sponsor getting into recovery groups or

[01:30:07] obviously rehab is expensive so um are there any uh cheap easy

[01:30:14] methods let's say uh to to get on the right path get that first step yeah yeah

[01:30:20] ultimately you have to forget everything you know about living yeah yeah and be willing to like

[01:30:26] be willing to um change your knowledge of you know how to fucking live because you clearly

[01:30:33] don't yeah right you're fucking you went from having a beautiful home to a career to you know

[01:30:41] a beautiful family and stuff like that to renting a fucking room yeah right making a just a fraction

[01:30:47] of what you used to make it was just a big crash yeah and and like you said over a five

[01:30:52] dollar bottle of vodka right multiple five dollars it didn't lead up to it over a number

[01:30:58] that was definitely right of you to say yeah you know like um because it's not just one bottle

[01:31:04] it is it is multiple things and it's we often downplay it as addicts will downplay it to oh

[01:31:10] it was that last one the one I got caught for yeah right yeah not the previous 30 that were

[01:31:15] before that it was the one right before if I didn't have that last one I wouldn't be in

[01:31:20] this situation no you would you would but that's the monster that's the absolutely yeah

[01:31:25] so it's like that episode of Seinfeld where George does everything the opposite yeah yeah yeah yeah

[01:31:31] where he's like I've been doing everything wrong my whole life and he goes absolute opposite of

[01:31:36] everything he thinks he should and his life turns out great yeah yeah and and that's that's

[01:31:40] what I've been thinking about while you've been talking about this and that is oh that's

[01:31:43] what you have to do that is that is so hard yeah it is it really is because um

[01:31:50] like even becoming successful in business and stuff like that like I had to fucking

[01:31:54] let go of any idea that I knew what that I what I was doing yeah right yeah and be willing willing

[01:32:00] oh willing is such a hard thing right you got the hope from the other people you have the

[01:32:05] willingness to do the work yeah and then or the being honest with yourself and others around you

[01:32:14] right being open-minded to hear what the options are and then being willing to do those

[01:32:20] options to take action yeah taking action is everything right and no matter how hard things

[01:32:26] can get your worst day in recovery is still better than your best day in active addiction

[01:32:32] oh I like that yeah there's a title of the episode all right well dude thank you so much

[01:32:39] for this um honestly like we had a funny experience last time we had a show together

[01:32:45] and this was a pleasure and um I really appreciate your your being candid with us and for sure

[01:32:51] exposing that and being honest because I think unless we hear it from people that are going

[01:32:57] through what you go through yeah we never learn shit yeah well the reality is is I'll listen

[01:33:02] to somebody like me before I listen to somebody in a suit and tie yeah yeah and so for sure

[01:33:07] thank you for being here to do that with us I really do appreciate it thank you I really

[01:33:11] really love talking to people like yourself one of my best friends from Slovakia he lives

[01:33:19] in England now um he quit drinking one day because simple fact he didn't like himself

[01:33:27] when he was drunk and um you know I would go back visit him and I would show up with a case

[01:33:34] of non-alcoholic beers and he's like dude you don't have to um do that yeah I was like I love

[01:33:41] to do that like yourself you know that honestly you are like I take my sober octobers and then

[01:33:46] I drink these uh non-alcoholic beers but you're the other person that drink these and

[01:33:51] and uh I want to keep these in my house because if you show up in my door I want to be able

[01:33:55] to offer you a beer um and and enjoy it with you and just uh thank you for for being you man and

[01:34:04] thanks for being our friend and a friend of the show and I can't thank you enough to

[01:34:11] share your story man it's uh well thanks for giving me the opportunity for sure anytime

[01:34:17] come back anytime you want yeah don't say that because I fucking look at how many times

[01:34:21] I came back to the other podcast you came back after well you probably meta-checked if I was there

[01:34:26] or not so yeah we got one of these cups for you as well um you know please enjoy your coffee

[01:34:33] tea and non-alcoholic beers yeah and uh just be coffee what's that what's that that non-alcoholic

[01:34:40] so soul brew I think that we tried it yeah at the other show no yeah it was uh yeah

[01:34:47] and honestly like that was really fucking good it's it's one of those things that like as soon

[01:34:52] as I put it on ice I had really enjoyed it yeah it fooled it fooled me man yeah I'm good

[01:34:58] but uh no thank you very much for joining us again and uh to anybody that's struggling with

[01:35:04] addiction um dag I'm gonna throw your tag you in um in our pod script as well uh and uh

[01:35:12] reach out to to me tim or or dag if you guys are struggling with anything uh whether it's alcohol

[01:35:19] drugs please reach out uh this guy's a pro he's been cleaning clean almost 11 years and uh

[01:35:28] just congratulations man and keep up the good work I love that you can hang out with two

[01:35:34] guys that drink tons of whiskey and still have a good time and yeah uh that's where it comes

[01:35:39] down to uh follow us on instagram and facebook quiet riot show and send us an email if you if

[01:35:45] you don't want to message us directly just want to send us an email it's a quiet riot show at

[01:35:51] gmail.com and yeah just uh hope you guys enjoyed it as much as I did thanks again dag

[01:35:57] I really appreciate it thanks man cheers all quiet riot show episodes have been recorded

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